Clerkship: What's up with them, and why are they such a big deal?

Bamboosprout

Depending on the school, the students and faculties sometimes talk about clerkship as if they're a really big deal. All I understand about them is that they're prestigious and competitive, and can offer a unique experience. Schools like Cornell seem to pride themselves on it, and use it as a point of advertisement. I am a fan of Cornell, but more for their international law specializations. Other schools like UVA also focus heavily on clerkship. Other schools almost completely gloss over it, even though they have high clerkship placement, like UPenn, Columbia, or UChic. Does anyone here know why clerkship can be such a big deal?

Leah M B

I only know a little bit about them, but yes they are considered really prestigious, particularly if you clerk for a federal judge. From what I've seen, they set you up really well for career success and better entry-level positions. Working directly for a judge and writing for them is a valued asset for everything from biglaw to government. Biglaw likes it particularly because it gives you a leg up in understanding how judges think and consider cases. It's very intellectual and gives you great training in legal writing. And obviously since there are only so many judges, there are only so many clerk positions available so they are highly selective. Having a good relationship with a judge can be very helpful down the line too, for networking, etc. For at least federal government positions, it makes you much more competitive to land a job and you start at a higher payscale if you've clerked.

Bamboosprout

@"Leah M B" said:
I only know a little bit about them, but yes they are considered really prestigious, particularly if you clerk for a federal judge. From what I've seen, they set you up really well for career success and better entry-level positions. Working directly for a judge and writing for them is a valued asset for everything from biglaw to government. Biglaw likes it particularly because it gives you a leg up in understanding how judges think and consider cases. It's very intellectual and gives you great training in legal writing. And obviously since there are only so many judges, there are only so many clerk positions available so they are highly selective. Having a good relationship with a judge can be very helpful down the line too, for networking, etc. For at least federal government positions, it makes you much more competitive to land a job and you start at a higher payscale if you've clerked.

That really interesting. So it's like a pre-selection process for big-law.
How important do you think it is to have the experience of understanding a bit about how judges think and consider cases? And do you think people can learn it elsewhere? Like reading court opinions and listening to discussions and podcasts on opinions?

drbrown2

@Bamboosprout said:
How important do you think it is to have the experience of understanding a bit about how judges think and consider cases?

You will read tons of cases and in law school that help you learn how laws are interpreted and applied by judges.

Check out the podcast First Mondays. It is produced by two former Supreme Court clerks and really gets into some of the current cases before the court. They occasionally talk about their experiences clerking, and although clerking at that level is a total unicorn job it will probably give you a better understanding of clerking in general.

The subject matter is intended for lawyers and law students, and their discussions on cases can get quite complex. They have guest appearances from advocates sometimes. Both of the hosts are law professors. Their conversations will give you a better sense of the legal nerdiness common among lawyers in that line of work.

If you want to clerk at the federal level it is important to be one of the top students at your school. Journal and law review experience is also important. Also, try to develop some relationships with your professors as they will be your recommenders when you apply and interview.

Leah M B

@Bamboosprout said:

@"Leah M B" said:
I only know a little bit about them, but yes they are considered really prestigious, particularly if you clerk for a federal judge. From what I've seen, they set you up really well for career success and better entry-level positions. Working directly for a judge and writing for them is a valued asset for everything from biglaw to government. Biglaw likes it particularly because it gives you a leg up in understanding how judges think and consider cases. It's very intellectual and gives you great training in legal writing. And obviously since there are only so many judges, there are only so many clerk positions available so they are highly selective. Having a good relationship with a judge can be very helpful down the line too, for networking, etc. For at least federal government positions, it makes you much more competitive to land a job and you start at a higher payscale if you've clerked.

That really interesting. So it's like a pre-selection process for big-law.
How important do you think it is to have the experience of understanding a bit about how judges think and consider cases? And do you think people can learn it elsewhere? Like reading court opinions and listening to discussions and podcasts on opinions?

Of course there are other ways to learn that kind of thing. But I don't think reading opinions and listening to podcasts could substitute entirely for the experience of working directly for a judge, writing his/her opinions, being able to ask a judge questions, etc. And hard to put on a resume haha. It's definitely not necessary for biglaw, but I have heard that they look at it favorably. Many people go straight into biglaw and never clerk though. Clerkships also don't pay very well, and they aren't always eligible positions for school LRAPs either (weird policy IMO, but it is what it is).

Leah M B

Since I don't know all that much about this myself, I did some googling and read some more info. I think these articles are really helpful:

https://blog.powerscore.com/lsat/why-to-become-a-judicial-law-clerk-after-law-school

https://law.utexas.edu/judicial-clerkships/why-clerk/

https://careers.findlaw.com/legal-career-options/to-clerk-or-not-to-clerk.html

studyingandrestudying

The Law School Toolbox is another resource you may find helpful.

_oshun1_

I just spoke with a current 2L at a t12 who externed for a judge during the summer before 2L. She said that one only gets paid $60k/year for a clerkship and it’s a temporary position (usually 1 year, sometimes extended to 2). After clerking people typically go into big law and they are paid $100k more than the big law starting salary (which is currently $190k).
I have no idea how accurate this info is though but she seemed knowledgeable.

Bamboosprout

@"surfy surf" said:
I just spoke with a current 2L at a t12 who externed for a judge during the summer before 2L. She said that one only gets paid $60k/year for a clerkship and it’s a temporary position (usually 1 year, sometimes extended to 2). After clerking people typically go into big law and they are paid $100k more than the big law starting salary (which is currently $190k).
I have no idea how accurate this info is though but she seemed knowledgeable.

Oh, that's a really interesting perspective. Thank you!

Bamboosprout

@lsatplaylist said:
The Law School Toolbox is another resource you may find helpful.

Oh why? I have this on my list of to do's after my apps, but I thought it was more for preparing for 1L academics.

Bamboosprout

@"Leah M B" said:
Since I don't know all that much about this myself, I did some googling and read some more info. I think these articles are really helpful:

Thanks, hahahaha. I looked some up too, but wanted to get this out there on the forums and see if anyone has any unique insights. I think I got some~

Bamboosprout

@drbrown2 said:

Thanks for sharing this! This is a great resource. I'll add it to my podcast list.

spitzy11

Many big law firms provide clerkship bonuses (as alluded to above). The higher the level of clerkship, the higher the bonus (often). It depends on what you want to do in terms of what level you should clerk at. Federal clerkships are also favored unless the state court is very highly regarded... like CA, NY, and Massachusetts. In order to get one, grades & being on some type of journal are arguably the most important. There are a lot of benefits but I'd say the top reasons would be interaction with litigants, discovery issues, motion practices, etc. and obviously the relationship you build with the judge you clerk for!

Bamboosprout

@spitzy11 said:
Many big law firms provide clerkship bonuses (as alluded to above). The higher the level of clerkship, the higher the bonus (often). It depends on what you want to do in terms of what level you should clerk at. Federal clerkships are also favored unless the state court is very highly regarded... like CA, NY, and Massachusetts. In order to get one, grades & being on some type of journal are arguably the most important. There are a lot of benefits but I'd say the top reasons would be interaction with litigants, discovery issues, motion practices, etc. and obviously the relationship you build with the judge you clerk for!

That huge bonus is pretty interesting. It's almost as if it is an additional self-selection process. Thank you for listing out some of the top reasons for being a clerk. That specific detail was what I was wondering about.

Bamboosprout

@"Leah M B" said:
Since I don't know all that much about this myself, I did some googling and read some more info. I think these articles are really helpful:

https://blog.powerscore.com/lsat/why-to-become-a-judicial-law-clerk-after-law-school

https://law.utexas.edu/judicial-clerkships/why-clerk/

https://careers.findlaw.com/legal-career-options/to-clerk-or-not-to-clerk.html

Just finished reading the powerscore article. That one was the best one. To summarize -
Working as a clerk allows you to be exposed to professional level lawyer work while having none of the consequences of being wrong; in a safe cocoon, as the writer puts it. All the while, building invaluable research and analytical skills that allow you to be 'broken-in' for first year level work (hence the bonuses), and invaluable networks that allow you to be flexible with your career path and perhaps skip a few steps or obstacles.

NotMyName

Dang. I wanna clerk now.