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Hi Guys, I have troubles again. Any advice will be appreciated.

jyang72jyang72 Alum Member
in General 844 karma
I've been practicing LSAT since June 2014. I went through all 7sage materials besides Logical Game Bundles in the end of August. Then I spent 3 months going through all Logical Game Bundles. During that months, all I did was logic game and reading the Economist. After Logical Game Bundle is over, I started Prep Test right away. I think you all know the result. It was awful. After 7 prep tests, the highest score I get is 152. Then I realized something went wrong. I stopped prep test. In the winter, I bought old LSAT and kept doing untimed Logical Reasoning. Gladly, I could get roughly more than 20 right, sometimes even 22, or 23. Recently, I started doing timed section and Blind Review. I gave myself 45 minutes at first. Then, I gradually reduced my time to 40 minutes. However, I could only get 16 questions right without blind review. Even with blind review, I can only get roughly 19 or 20 questions right. I am a good student. I got 3.8 GPA in UNH. After I transfer to Fordham University in my junior year, I am having 3.9 GPA. I am contributing at least 3.5 hours per day for LSAT. But the result broke my heart again. I am sorry for typing so much. But any advice will be appreciated. Thank you. I am an international student from China. English is my second language.


  • Nilesh SNilesh S Alum Inactive ⭐
    3438 karma
    it takes time... don't worry... review the conditional logic curriculum again... also... keep an excel sheet where you note the problems that you get wrong from every set so that if a pattern emerges, you can see which kinds of questions you are getting wrong... your situation also seems like the right fit for tutoring... why don't you contact Jon for some tutoring sessions...sometimes, we can't see what we do wrong... but experts can... schedule a session and see what he has to say.
  • jdawg113jdawg113 Alum Inactive ⭐
    2654 karma
    it does take some more time for some than others. What have you done besides 7sage if any? I would recommend going over the Trainer and Manhattan LR. Where your score is at there is clearly fundamental issues, not fully a timing thing. Sometimes after getting a decent base, reading or rereading the books can allow for a realization which helps things click. You def made the right move stopping the PT's and trying to figure this out. Just keep pushing in the right direction and you'll get there
  • devin.balutdevin.balut Free Trial Member
    77 karma
    I have no idea if this applies in your case, but most of the people I know who got stuck in low 150s after working hard at the LSAT had a problem with accepting that they were wrong. Not on a question by question basis, but in a fundamental line of reasoning sense. They defaulted on "well I kind of get why it's right, but I still think what I picked worked too" or something along those lines. I noticed it especially from people confident in their own abilities, and a couple tutors have mentioned it on 7Sage as well.

    Being on 7Sage you'll hear that every LSAT question has 5 answer choices and 4 of them are absolutely 100%, indefensibly wrong. My only gains (small though they are) on LR/RC have been from embracing this mentality and affixing in my mind exactly why each choice is wrong or right.

    Now your case might not have anything to do with that (and if it isn't know I mean no offense, I only thought it'd be helpful if it was), but what I keep hearing here is that LSAT mindset is all about mindset. When you're smart (I'd think a 3.8-3.9 would say that), but after dozens if not hundreds of hours you're testing in the low 150s I'd agree it's more likely a fundamental concepts thing. And if your BR still leaves 7 questions wrong per LR section despite the efforts you've made I think you have to look really close at those misses. A tutor might help hit key areas.

    So yeah what other people are saying. Work on fundamentals. Hyper-analyze your mistakes for patterns. Don't be discouraged. People here make phenomenal gains. You're obviously smart but you're having some setbacks and working through a language barrier so it might take a while, but I'm sure you'll get the score you want if you continue to work as hard as you have.
  • blah170blahblah170blah Alum Inactive ⭐
    3545 karma
    What's your accuracy like? It's okay if the timing isn't there yet, but if you're taking 45 minutes to finish questions, your accuracy should be at least 80% or you're missing some key fundamentals.

    I personally have and always will recommend Manhattan for logical reasoning. It's by far the best thing I've discovered because they provide a systematic approach to eliminating wrong answers and getting to the right one.
  • blah170blahblah170blah Alum Inactive ⭐
    3545 karma
    I should add that materials jive with people differently. A lot of people told me that PowerScore and TestMasters were great for logical reasoning, but I really learned nothing. Part of the lsat is just exploring what strategies are out there, taking them as your own, and then creating your own. It takes time (I've been studying for a year now) but I believe you can do it. And, id be happy to share any notes along your way. :)
  • jyang72jyang72 Alum Member
    844 karma
    Thank you guys for your advice. So far, I can get 22 or 21 or even the whole logical games right. But my LR and RC still stay in the 15 or 16 area. I will definitely go back to fundamentals and review all of them. I am not that smart. I just like to work a bit harder than average people. Thanks for giving me that credit.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Free Trial
    edited February 2015 578 karma
    @jyang72. I understand exactly what you mean, by that I mean, we have a lot in common.

    I started studying in July 2014 with Testmasters hoping to take it on September. I was studying everyday...from morning to night because I had no other obligations or responsibility. I had a bf but lsat became my new bf that I spent time with everyday and I loved it. Then my last semester started and since I had to maintain my 3.8 GPA (I'm sure you understand the struggle) I had to study part time for lsat. Now I'm done with school and don't have any other obligations but I hate the lsat now because I just want to take the dam test but my horrible 150s PT scores force me to postpone.
    English is also my second language but don't let this go to your head. LSAT DOES NOT TEST YOUR VOCABULARY. It's not like the GRE. In fact, lsat writers will always have hints in the following sentences for you to understand a previous hard word they used. I always come across words that I'm thinking "I swear on my life this isn't a real word" but instead of worring about that, I just go with the flow and try to get a hint of what that weird word meant by reading the other sentences for clues. So don't worry about English being your second language. That is not affecting it, that's just something in your head.

    I wouldn't suggest continuing to take practice tests. I would suggest restarting your prep as I am doing and after a few months you can get back to taking practice that time, timing should be your only challenge not getting answers wrong. I know, it's hard having to face the reality that you may need to restart but believe me, looking at things with fresh eye you will notice your pattern of mistakes more. I sometimes look at the previous questions I have completed back in July 2014 and I think "wow I was so naive to pick this answer"
  • andrei700andrei700 Free Trial Member
    17 karma
    Hi @jyang72

    Like @royaimani, I can relate as well. It sounds like we've invested similar time and effort, to see very similar results. I've worked so hard, especially over the last two months. I study at least 3.5 hrs/day, with only 1 day of "rest" per week (on my off day I may spend an hr or two reading lsat blogs, finding new resources, miscellaneous LSAT related things). Over the past 60 days, I've ONLY been working on logic games, my weakness. And I bet if I were to take a practice test tomorrow, I wouldn't see an improvement. But you know what? That's OK. I trust in myself, the work I'm putting in, the great resources I'm using like 7sage, and in the process of always seeking the best and most effective ways of studying. I know I wouldn't see improvement on a test immediately because it still takes me 15-30 mins to solve some logic games but guess what: that's so much better than where I started, which was not even being able to FINISH a lot of games. You can't motivate yourself entirely on fear and worry--celebrate your victories, even the small ones!! Best of luck,

  • tsamvelyantsamvelyan Alum Member
    431 karma
    Sounds like my story. We actually have the exact same pattern - I do really well on the games and do horribly bad on the reading comp and do average on LR. Essentially, this means that your analytical reasoning skills are strong but your reading skills are not as strong. I know in my case, for any LR questions where I get the question wrong, it has to do with not understanding what the question stem is saying - I inherited this problem I guess as a result of learning English at 14!

    Honestly, the only advice I can really give you is:

    1. Improve your understanding of logic, conditional reasoning, negation, all that good stuff. This will help you with MSS/MBT questions on the LR section.

    2. For all other LR questions, find the conclusion and find the support, I like to think of it in a more "lawyerly" way find the conclusion and find the evidence that's been given and see what the question stem is asking i.e. strengthen, weaken, find necessary or sufficient assumption, justify etc...

    3. Since it sounds like you've got the games down, make sure you review the latest test to see the pattern of the games. The games have gotten significantly more difficult, so make sure you get every single question right on the games.

    4. There is not much I can tell you for Reading Comp other than just do your best. Honestly, if you narrow your losses on the LR and do really well in LG, you will most likely crack the 160.

  • jyang72jyang72 Alum Member
    edited February 2015 844 karma
    I tend to second guess myself a lot during prep test. But I do tend to think I am right all the time. Perhaps that's another issue I need to work on. Thank you for your advice!
  • jyang72jyang72 Alum Member
    844 karma
    Thank you. I will definitely take your word upon on it. I will go back to fundamentals and see what my problem is. I am glad that I am not alone. I hope you don't mind it lol.
  • jyang72jyang72 Alum Member
    844 karma
    I ordered Manhattan LR already. I guess I need to seriously go back to fundamentals and solve my mistakes. Thank you for your advice. I really appreciate it!!
  • jyang72jyang72 Alum Member
    844 karma
    @Nilesh S
    I've only been to the U.S for 3 years and I never spoke English until I came to the U.S. English is definitely a hard nut to crack to me. But I will just deal with it. Thank you for your advice. Do you know where to get Jon's contact? Thank you
  • Nilesh SNilesh S Alum Inactive ⭐
    edited February 2015 3438 karma
    @jyang72 I just pm'ed you Jon's email.
  • jyang72jyang72 Alum Member
    844 karma
    @"Nilesh S"
    Thank you so much!!
  • Nilesh SNilesh S Alum Inactive ⭐
    3438 karma
    No problem... hope it helps!!!
  • jyang72jyang72 Alum Member
    844 karma
    Thank you for your advice. I did Cambridge LR and RC problem sets. I also found some logic books to read as supplement. I guess I will have to try everything I can. :)
  • RM112015RM112015 Free Trial Member
    192 karma
    Hey, don't get discouraged. I was in a bit of a slump myself for the first two months. I kept working at it and it is only until recently that everything has really started to click. I've gone from a 146 diagnostic to now constantly hitting the upper 160s with the occasional 170+.

    I would recommend that you blind review thoroughly and take as much time as you need. You do not need to time yourself on blind review. Then, what I do after blind reviewing is to check my answers on the Manhattan forums ( It's a great way to get explanations from others who have struggled on questions and see different points of reasoning. I know that I learn best from seeing questions explained in writing so this has really helped me a lot. Hope these tips help!
  • jyang72jyang72 Alum Member
    844 karma
    Thank you so much!! I will definitely do it.
  • emli1000emli1000 Alum Member Inactive ⭐
    3462 karma
    It will definitely take time. But before you notice, you'll be reaching that LSAT score you've been working hard for. All of your hard work will pay off! Don't lose hope!
  • jyang72jyang72 Alum Member
    844 karma
    Thank you Emily. I will definitely keep up my diligence.
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