Picking a school

gabfletcher128

Hey everyone,

I took the November lsat. I went through the whole application process and have some solid options for fall 2021. I am wondering if anyone has any advice on picking a school. Deposits are due April 15 so time is winding down :’) I received a full ride to a “lower ranked” school and substantial scholarship at some sorta higher ranked schools (nothing T1 the LSAT wouldn’t allow it:’)))) I am on the wait list for my top school (T2) which I knew would be a reach anyway due to my lsat being below their median.

I know more goes into this decision than rankings (I hate them!!!) I wasn’t really able to visit many places due to COVID - a lot of schools are still virtual or hybrid or just not doing in person tours. Hard to get a feel of where I could see myself for 3 years. I have been looking at employment outcomes and bar passage rates and where alumni are located. I’ve lived in Pennsylvania my whole life and I am perfectly happy living here and practicing law here. I’m not aiming for BigLaw - I really don’t see the point in selling my life away to be knees deep in debt at a job I hate?!?

Would you take the full ride to the lower ranked school? Or would you pay 100K + more for your top choice if lifted from the waitlist? My top choice is in PA, my full ride school is in Ohio. I am confident I can find employment in PA even though I went to school in Ohio. I have professional connections here (I took off some time to work full time before applying to law school).

I guess I really just want to know if anyone has any thoughts - this decision is huge I know. The financial freedom that comes with not paying any tuition is extremely appealing. I have worked and saved and I may not take out a loan for living. Debt free for grad school?!? Ahhhhh!!!!

Thanks in advance

TimeIsMoney

Hey there, don't freak out I am in the same boat as you. I received a great scholarship to my hometown school in Ohio. I also received good scholarships from 4 other schools that were somewhat higher "ranked". To be honest with you, i went into the application cycle knowing i wanted to go to school in Indiana/Ohio/Pennsylvania. Rankings are honestly such a pain in the ass to constantly hear about. People get on here and talk about rankings non-stop and it's really pretty annoying. Don't get caught up on rankings. You need to make connections and go to the place that feels like home. Though i probably could have gotten into a few T30 schools, i didn't even apply to any because i knew that even if i got in i would have no scholarship money and have to pay for living expenses. I know several judges and lawyers and they all tell me that it is all about networking. If they come down to several applicants for a job opening, they will almost always go with the person they know or are connected with. I also was literally only able to visit the school I decided to go to and one other one that i never seriously considered. The other schools only offered virtual visits which really made me kind of mad. No way am i going to commit to a school that i've never even been in. How much higher ranked is your top choice? It would help to know the actual schools you're weighing. Being from Ohio, I know pretty much every school here and have atleast been on most campuses. If you want to privately discuss your options/money let me know!

Jordan Johnson

Where do you want to ultimately practice law? From what I understand: (a) law schools tend to teach, generally, the law in the context of that specific state; and (b) the Bar is specific to each state, and you have to take the Bar in each state that you plan to practice in.

In my case (and for my ultimate career goals), I'd choose a lower-ranked school in CA or NY over a higher-ranked school in a different state.

YMMV.

Hope that helps!

VerdantZephyr

@gabfletcher128 We really need more information to give good advice. We lack information about what sort of debt load you would incur and even more importantly, we don't know what "sorta higher ranked" and "lower ranked" mean. Are you choosing between a top 30 program and a sub-100 program or a top 35 and a top 50? How much money will you be left paying at the higher school with the substantial scholarship? I appreciate your desire to protect your privacy, but we really can't give any good advice without that information.

I will say as a general rule that if you aren't going big law you should prioritize employability and less debt.

You might check out Above the Law's rankings which focus on employability and debt far more than US news.

SufficientCondition

@gabfletcher128 said:
Hey everyone,

I took the November lsat. I went through the whole application process and have some solid options for fall 2021. I am wondering if anyone has any advice on picking a school. Deposits are due April 15 so time is winding down :’) I received a full ride to a “lower ranked” school and substantial scholarship at some sorta higher ranked schools (nothing T1 the LSAT wouldn’t allow it:’)))) I am on the wait list for my top school (T2) which I knew would be a reach anyway due to my lsat being below their median.

I know more goes into this decision than rankings (I hate them!!!) I wasn’t really able to visit many places due to COVID - a lot of schools are still virtual or hybrid or just not doing in person tours. Hard to get a feel of where I could see myself for 3 years. I have been looking at employment outcomes and bar passage rates and where alumni are located. I’ve lived in Pennsylvania my whole life and I am perfectly happy living here and practicing law here. I’m not aiming for BigLaw - I really don’t see the point in selling my life away to be knees deep in debt at a job I hate?!?

Would you take the full ride to the lower ranked school? Or would you pay 100K + more for your top choice if lifted from the waitlist? My top choice is in PA, my full ride school is in Ohio. I am confident I can find employment in PA even though I went to school in Ohio. I have professional connections here (I took off some time to work full time before applying to law school).

I guess I really just want to know if anyone has any thoughts - this decision is huge I know. The financial freedom that comes with not paying any tuition is extremely appealing. I have worked and saved and I may not take out a loan for living. Debt free for grad school?!? Ahhhhh!!!!

Thanks in advance

@gabfletcher128 I've been thinking about this recently. After reading a very cynical book about law school from after the recession, my approach was to make a spreadsheet comparing anticipated finances to my best available alternative. The point the author made well I thought was that independent of passion, experience, or anything else, law school has to make financial sense. In my case, I realized that it would take 12 years to break even financially. (This is without weighting differential free time at all.) All this depends on what professional options you anticipate pursuing in school and afterwards. Let me know if I can help by explaining this over Zoom--I'd been happy to!

lilpingling

@SufficientCondition I love the spreadsheet idea. I have my own ridiculously complex version that compares my schools, the costs/benefits, and so on. It's a lifesaver as responses are rolling in (albeit slowly).

As far as the business of rankings goes... well, that's very complicated. Do I think it's possible to be successful as a lawyer despite not attending a T14 school? Absolutely. That said, your own personal goals play a big part in how you define success- what is successful to you may not be to someone else, and that's okay. It is important though, that you understand the risks and benefits of a particular school. Some schools are low ranked based on nominal factors like library size, but offer solid opportunities and have strong local ties. They continue to spiral in the rankings because low rankings make it difficult to bring in strong candidates and so on. Other schools are downright predatory. It's important that you have a realistic understanding of how much debt you may incur (with or without aid) and how much you will earn to offset that. Employment statistics are a great tool, so are first time bar passage rates. There are plenty of people who love working for legal aid or as public defenders- generally careers that are attainable with non T14 schools - but you do need to be able to pass the bar exam and pay your bills in the end.

I agree that shaming and attacking is entirely unhelpful and I've seen a whole lot of it lately under the guise of "I'm just trying to help." In fairness, none of this has been on 7Sage.

Honestly, I'm choosing the lowest ranked school on my list (by a lot). They've offered me an excellent deal that will likely lead to a good employment opportunity. I did my homework and I know it's the right choice for me.

SufficientCondition

@lilpingling said:
@SufficientCondition I love the spreadsheet idea. I have my own ridiculously complex version that compares my schools, the costs/benefits, and so on. It's a lifesaver as responses are rolling in (albeit slowly).

As far as the business of rankings goes... well, that's very complicated. Do I think it's possible to be successful as a lawyer despite not attending a T14 school? Absolutely. That said, your own personal goals play a big part in how you define success- what is successful to you may not be to someone else, and that's okay. It is important though, that you understand the risks and benefits of a particular school. Some schools are low ranked based on nominal factors like library size, but offer solid opportunities and have strong local ties. They continue to spiral in the rankings because low rankings make it difficult to bring in strong candidates and so on. Other schools are downright predatory. It's important that you have a realistic understanding of how much debt you may incur (with or without aid) and how much you will earn to offset that. Employment statistics are a great tool, so are first time bar passage rates. There are plenty of people who love working for legal aid or as public defenders- generally careers that are attainable with non T14 schools - but you do need to be able to pass the bar exam and pay your bills in the end.

I agree that shaming and attacking is entirely unhelpful and I've seen a whole lot of it lately under the guise of "I'm just trying to help." In fairness, none of this has been on 7Sage.

Honestly, I'm choosing the lowest ranked school on my list (by a lot). They've offered me an excellent deal that will likely lead to a good employment opportunity. I did my homework and I know it's the right choice for me.

Love it!