Have things changed drastically recently?

leonsmoney

I started studying in February (Taking the October test, fees paid I've completed all of the course material and now am working through the PTs from oldest to most recent. My average on my PTs is 163 which I'm okay with. 153 on my first diagnostic. I've taken 11 PTs now so It's a pretty solid average I believe (159 worst -166 best). My question is for those who have taken a recent test... I've heard that the tests are changing, especially the logic games with the reintroduction of maps, circles etc., Has anyone taken a recent test that can compare it to tests in the 50-60 range? I'm confident in my abilities as long as they haven't gone and introduced something crazy that my fundamentals haven't prepared me for. I'm saving the 70s tests for the last two weeks. Just trying to get some insight into what lies ahead Cheers

Pacifico

Skip around, don't wait until the week before the October LSAT to take 70+ because it will likely be demoralizing as most people report 5-10 point drops in their scores and you don't need that stress right before the real thing. If you can mix a few in now and save some for later then you should be in much better shape.

leonsmoney

Got it. Thank you. I'll start alternating old and new then. Just ordered 72-74 on Amazon. So maybe do 70, 71, 72 in August and save 73 and 74 for September?

Pacifico

Yeah that's my plan so I would recommend it to others. Try and get in on some group BR as well if you haven't yet.

mpits001

YES YES YES! I'm not sure if the Oct. exam will follow the recent trend of older LGs, but I'd be very careful. I remember studying for the exam and going over the LG bundle one last time before June. I came across a circle game and sorta chuckled while shaking my head. However, this circle game was a bit more elaborate than the game from PT 1. LG feel a bit harder (to me anyway) on the recent LSATs vs all the LSATs I've PTed. LG is one of my strongest sections (-1 and sometimes -3/-4), but on actual exams it tends to be my worst section. Also, remember that a 160+ is possible even if you bomb the LG section, you just have to be amazing at the other sections, lol.

7sagelsatstudent180

PT 65+ is where I noticed a switch of sorts... The writing is clearer but there are way more trick answer choices... Like a ridiculous amount of trick answer choices... Once you adjust it will be fine

leonsmoney

Got it. Thank you all. I was thinking about this post last night and realized I forgot to ask what specifically is it that people feel is causing their scores to drop and is it something that can be overcome. I'm assuming people are overcoming it or the curve would reflect. The main trend I keep hearing is the logic games getting unusual. I'm still working through the bundle. I've done 1-20 so far. I'm going to take 52 today and then start alternating from 65, 53, 66, 54, 67, 55 etc., My job allows me a lot of free time so I take one at home quiet under lock down and then I take one in my office with a little background noise outside my door. Thanks and good luck to everyone taking the October test. I"ll update this post with my thoughts once I start taking the newer tests. Cheers

Student76

I was -0 to -2 in logic games with my pt and -6 on actual june test. My advice is to master lr, they are the most in quantity and there is little variation. Rc and lg can go either direction even with the best preperation dwpending on what you get. Rc was my worst and I ended up killing it, you never know. Lr was right on with what I expected. I was able to score on the high end of my pts even with a disappointment on lg.

leonsmoney

@Student76 - that's great to hear! I've got 10 weeks left, and going to make the most out of it. Hoping I am still scoring about my PT average as I work in these newer PTs.

NYC12345

I don't notice any significant difference in the recent PTs. I am up to PT 60 and the only difference I notice is the wording is a lot more clearer. LR and RC test the same exact skill set. I think people exaggerate when they claim that the new exams are harder than the older ones. Granted, the curve on the older exams are much more lenient, most likely because of the tough LG sections, but a score on an older exam is indicative of how you will perform on a more recent exam. LSAC hires statisticians to create a test that is consistent.

c.janson35

I have to agree with @alexandergreene93. I think you're really psyching yourself out if you go into recent exams thinking there's been some sort of drastic change. In fact, I'd be willing to bet that if the tests weren't numbered (post June 2007) then it would be really difficult to notice any changes throughout. Sure, you may get a game that's weird but there's been weird games throughout LSAT history. If the test is harder by any measure I believe it's only slightly so.

7sagelsatstudent180

... My score had a noticeable drop after I got into the high 60's PT's but they recovered after a few tests... You'll be fine... The tests definitely do change and you'll realize the hype as you get closer... Study hard and hopefully you'll peak when it matters most

gs556

I took tests ranging from 9-75 and can assure you there's no drastic change. It's the same test with only subtle updates in how precise the language is. The games also fluctuate from non-formulaic (on the older exams) to formulaic ~40-64is, to less formulaic again. That may be *perceived* as more difficult but the underlying logic and necessary skills are the same.

To expand on the games a bit: I took the June exam this year. Sitting in the exam room that day, the games section seemed completely foreign to me. There was no simple sequencing game. The rules were weird and the games did not feel as cookie cutter as I had grown accustom to. I used the skills I learned and trucked through it the best I could. I came out feeling as though I had bombed the section but I had actually only gone -3. Why? Because I used the skills I learned from 7sage and focused on the fundamentals: translating English to lawgic, representing rules visually, splitting my board, looking for inferences, POE, etc.

leonsmoney

Thanks again all! Definitely not trying to psych myself out. Just curious of those who have done both the old and new as to what they feel changed, and if there is anything I should do different. I'm going to keep doing what I'm doing but alternate old test/new test to expose myself to everything. Cheers. I'll update this post with my thoughts after I've done a few of the new tests. Good luck to all taking the October test!

nicole.hopkins

@leonsmoney said:
I'm saving the 70s tests for the last two weeks.

Don't. You'll likely set yourself up for failure and demoralization. Especially PT72. That's why we're doing the tests in the 70's in BR groups (on Fridays) right now. I would rather master the material in the tests than set myself up for emotional upheaval in the final weeks.

NYC12345

@nicole.hopkins
What is so different about PT 72 and the 70s in general?

leonsmoney

Agreed, Nicole. I won't be saving those for the last two weeks any longer. I'm going to be working in a new one each week during this last 10 weeks to give myself time to make any necessary adjustments. @Alexandergreene93 That was exactly what I was trying to find out originally LOL. It seems to be the general consensus that the writing is clearer, with more trick answers and reintroduction of older style games.

brna0714

@nicole.hopkins - Finally someone said it outright! I really feel like the conventional wisdom of chronological order is bad advice and I'm going to start shouting it from the rooftops.

@leonsmoney- I believe she is saying don't leave the 70s for the last 2 weeks per the quote.

NYC12345

@brna0714 If you complete the 70s long before the exam, how will you know what range you will score in on test day. The reason JY says to save the most recent exams for the weeks leading up to the exam is so you will be able to predict what your score will be.

brna0714

@alexandergreene93 - You can get an accurate prediction of your test day performance by reserving one or two of the 70s for the weeks leading up to the test. Wanting an accurate predictor simply doesn't justify leaving every single one of the most recent test for the last 2 weeks. During the last 2 weeks, you're unlikely to have time to adjust your methods and achieve consistency. Ideally, you won't be adjusting anything in the last 2 weeks. Ideally, you'll only be solidfying well practiced strategies. Some have noticed a drop in score, others have not, but why risk something like that (potentially worrisome/demoralizing) in the last weeks before the test? You should want exposure to the most representative material throughout your prep process.

NYC12345

@brna0714 What do you think about completing 70-72 early and saving 73-75 for the last three weeks?

brna0714

@alexandergreene93 - That could be good. As long as the bulk of the most recent material isn't left for the last minute, you should be in the clear.

nicole.hopkins

@alexandergreene93 said:
What is so different about PT 72 and the 70s in general?

as far as PT72 goes ... you'll know.

nicole.hopkins

@alexandergreene93 said:
What do you think about completing 70-72 early and saving 73-75 for the last three weeks?

If you're ready, you're ready. I think a mindful and holistic approach leading up to test day is pretty much a win-win situation. If you're in the position of needing to "check" if you're "scoring in your desired range" then my thought is that you probably haven't really maximized your potential. For folks who are studying for 4 months, ok, that makes sense. I'm in favor of playing the long game and preparing so deeply that you won't wonder whether you should withdraw and waste that $175. Saving a couple of PT's and getting the right numbers shouldn't really be the indication of readiness, IMO.

Student76

@nicole.hopkins is right on 72! Skip it, seriously that test shattered my confidence before feb 2015. I was scratching my head thinking there must be something I did worng to score 10pts lower than usual. Nope, just got them all wrong. I retook just for fun before June test and scored in the high 160s, but never did figure out a good way for that last puzzle...

NYC12345

@Student76
@nicole.hopkins
Is LG the section in 72, which makes the exam harder than usual, or is the LR very hard as well?

nicole.hopkins

@alexandergreene93 said:
Is LG the section in 72, which makes the exam harder than usual, or is the LR very hard as well?

NO SPOILERS

harrismegan

Omg #72 was the exam I took. Worst. Worst. Worst. Never have I NOT finished a LG question before.

gs556

PT72 is over-hyped... It just has an unusual game which is why it's perceived as unusually hard. From an emotional/psychological perspective I think it's good advice to not do it a few days before you sit for the real thing. However, If there's one thing you can learn from PT 72 it's how NOT to panic because you don't recognize what you're reading. Stick to your fundamentals, always! The logic is always the same.

nicole.hopkins

@gs556 said:
However, If there's one thing you can learn from PT 72 it's how NOT to panic because you don't recognize what you're reading.

There you go. I actually only missed 2 on the last game the first time I took PT72 ... So there IS some sense to be made of it. I'm not one of those ridiculous games people who does a section in 20 minutes. I'm just a joe-schmo.

@gs556 said:
PT72 is over-hyped...

For many of us, we saw scores we do not customarily see. I hesitate to dismiss the statistics—likewise, the individuals who endured the shock of the experience. For some reason, the test (which also had some challenging RC antics) caught many of us who are exceedingly diligent off-guard.

7sagelsatstudent180

I did terrible timed on PT72 (158) but I did fine on blind review (168). It's a tough test but not the hardest imo

Student76

Lr was the worst I had ever scored. Not sure why, just didn't click for me.

Student76

@gs556 lol. A "sage" says over-hyped! What about for us common folk? 72 was the stuff of nightmares the first time around and I didn't even realize it when I was taking it. The second time I had taken like 15 tests in between so I don't think I remembered the answers (especially since I didn't properly review it after the first) but it just made more sense to me. Maybe a better way to put it is 72 is a good measure of your readiness!

Student76

@7sagelsatstudent180 what was your most difficult test?

nicole.hopkins

@Student76 said:
Maybe a better way to put it is 72 is a good measure of your readiness!

Now that's a scary thought!

Student76

@nicole.hopkins I'm sure you would have a huge increase from the first time! Maybe it was a risk but retaking it made me feel really good going into June's test, like whatever I wasn't getting before, I did get now. Oddly enough I scored +2 from my 72 score on the Feb lsat and +2 from my second 72 score on the June (scaled not raw).

leonsmoney

I've got 10 weeks left, I think I'm going to proceed as follows: take an older test on Wednesday (review thur and Fri) newer test on Saturday (review Sunday/Monday)

Week 10 #53 & 65
Week 9 #54 & 66
Week 8 #55 & 67
Week 7 #56 & 68
Week 6 #57 & 69
Week 5 #58 & 70
Week 4 #59 & 71
Week 3 #60 & 72
Week 2 #61 & 73
Week 1 #62 & 74

(74 would be taken 2 days before real test as I'm taking it on Monday Oct 5th. Nondisclosed on a military base is the reason.)

How does that schedule look?

gs556

@leonsmoney said:
How does that schedule look?

I am not sure where you are in your prep or how many PTs you have, but if you could do 3 PTs a week instead of 2 it would be better. Doing at least 3 a week helped me get a great "LSAT intuition" and sense for the test's timing (when to move on, when to dwell, when to go back). You can take a test one day, review the next day, and repeat.

NYC12345

@leonsmoney PT 75 was released a couple of weeks ago. I thought I'd mention it because I don't see it in your schedule.

nicole.hopkins

@gs556 said:
if you could do 3 PTs a week instead of 2 it would be better

Phew ... it's a lot, though. Take care of yourself and learn the early signs of burnout. I've been doing 3-a-weeks for ... oh ... a couple months now and it's hard to get the balance right.

leonsmoney

Thanks all. So I've done about 12 PTs so far. My PT average is about 162/163. When I do my blind review what I'm finding is I'm glancing over the question stem to fast and making careless mistakes. For instance.. All of the following strengthen EXCEPT. I'll grab one that strengthens because I quit reading after I saw strengthen. Things like that I'm hoping I can correct easily. I've thought maybe I should highlight the question type "strengthen/EXCEPT" for example in that one so I don't make those mistakes. I caught myself make the exact same mistake in an LG yesterday which caused me some points. I'm hoping tightening that up will get me a few extra points. As for 3 a weeks!!! You guys are monsters lol I'm an active duty Marine with a family so getting in 2 a week takes a lot for me. My goal is to break 160 so I'm hoping as I get closer I see my PT average around 165ish. Cheers