Is 4 Months Enough Time?

daryab116

Hi,

I'm new to this lsat prep (just started today). I took the LSAT last year and scored a 144 and I graduated from undergrad with a 3.5 GPA and I plan on taking the LSAT again this December. A few days ago I decided to take a PT and scored a 139 (first time taking it in 6 months). Today I bought the LSAT Trainer and recently purchased this 7sage starter. I guess I'm just wondering if it's possible to score in the 160's or am I completely screwed and should give up. I've been feeling kind of low lately and having anxiety about not getting into law school because I'm scared to disappoint my parents again. Any help and advice would greatly be appreciated. Thanks guys.

sarkisp23

Everyone is about to tell you this: just study, learn and write it when you're ready. And they're right.

Having said that, you'd be surprised how much you can learn and grow in 4 months if you really apply yourself. If you don't work full-time, I'd say 4 months is good enough, though not great if you're aiming at reaching your full potential. And with a test this vital to your acceptance, you probably should take your time and aim to reach that potential if you can devote a longer period of time to study.

And to answer your question, it's very possible for you to even get a 175+. Why not? There are literally over 20 people just on here that have had 20+ point jumps by studying roughly 4-12 months. Just stick around, learn some foundational theory, learn to enjoy the LSAT and you'll be encouraged by your growth. Your confidence in your ability to kill this test will grow don't worry.

GSU Hopeful

The first thing I think you need to address is whether YOU want to go to law school or if you're doing it to appease your parents. If you look long term, this test is just the first obstacle of many that you will face. You still have 1L exams, the bar, finding a job, etc. You need to look within yourself and develop a "why" that explains what you are doing this for. If your "why" is "not letting your parents down", I don't believe this will be sufficient to get you through not only this obstacle, but the many that lie ahead. Secondly, if this is really what you are wanting to do, then you need to rid yourself of the negative thoughts. I would start with the Trainer and go through it in it's entirety. It helped me substantially, but I used it after starting with 7sage. It is possible to achieve what you are trying to do in 4 months, but you have to change your mindset and apply yourself completely. Fear of disappointing your parents will not keep you driving through the hard and frustrating times like an internal reason would. If law school in general is something you really want to do and will do anything to get there, stop asking yourself "should I just give up?" This question should never even creep into your mind if you are pursuing a dream. With law school and the risks associated being what it is, I believe this needs to be a dream. If it is, then don't have a plan B. Plan B's distract from plan A's. To reiterate, you need to validate the reasons why you are doing this. If you do, then pour your heart into it, work as hard as you can and let the chips fall into place. The dots will connect in the end for you.

"The harder you work, the harder it is to surrender." -Vince Lombardi

Pacifico

WARNING: This post contains real talk

@"GSU Hopeful" said:
The first thing I think you need to address is whether YOU want to go to law school or if you're doing it to appease your parents.

This is a great point because the parent issue is a huge red flag and is something that becomes more toxic as years go by. If this is part of your mindset it will never go away if you keep reinforcing it. Before you know it you'll be 50 years old worried about whether your parents were disappointed in you. Your happiness and mental well-being should not be contingent upon anything outside of yourself. If you keep making decisions for other people it will invariably lead you to a life that is not really your own. I definitely did this a lot when I was younger and it led to a lot of stupid decisions. I wouldn't take any of them back because of everything they taught me, but it causes much more pain and anguish than is necessary.

As for the crux of the question, it is hard to tell that you suck at taking tests because it doesn't sound like you studied, so maybe you just suck at knowing what it takes to succeed on the LSAT. Since you can easily finish the Trainer and all of 7Sage in 6-8 weeks at a decent clip, you could still get in 20+ PTs before December. People might disagree with this but if you really dedicate yourself and work hard at everything those resources have to offer and develop a solid understanding of the fundamental skills required then a 160 should come relatively easy for you (please note I said this requires hard work and dedication and you still have to perform on test day, a high score is not automatically awarded to you). You can miss about 20 questions on the average LSAT and still get a 160. And if your LG is on point then that is 6-7 questions for each other section. This can absolutely be done in 4 months for most people, but what's the point? To relate back to my earlier point, it doesn't really sound like you want to go to law school and it sounds like you have a generally defeatist attitude (e.g.-should I give up, am I screwed, etc.) This is serving no beneficial purpose to you or anyone else, so I'd stop studying and take this weekend for some legit introspection at what you really want to do with your life. You don't have to map out the next 50 years, but you should at least be able to come back and say whether you want to go to law school for yourself or not. If yes, then get to work and we'll be here to help, but if not, you seriously need to remove yourself from the long shadow your parents are casting and just go and live your life.

daryab116

@Pacifico @"GSU Hopeful" no I really do want to be a lawyer, I just feel really bad for wasting a lot of my parents money on previous LSAT tutoring and exams that didn't help me and I don't want to let them down again. I really am motivated this time, I guess I was feeling emo and discouraged to see that my PT score was similar to my actual LSAT score. Thanks for the input though guys, I really appreciate it and I'm glad you're here to help

nicole.hopkins

Start out by reading this thread: http://7sage.com/discussion/#/discussion/2584/why-knowledge-is-not-enough

@daryab116 said:
I've been feeling kind of low lately and having anxiety about not getting into law school because I'm scared to disappoint my parents again.

If the law IS your calling, then it's imperative that you not let your parents rush or pressure you. Ignore them. They will not help you on the LSAT and they will not help you in 1L. Those of us who have zero parental pressure have enough anxiety about this whole kit and caboodle.

It was THEIR choice to spend all that money on ineffective forms of LSAT prep. It took me literally 30 minutes, two hands, a keyboard, and Google one night a year ago to figure out I could do this on my own with the LSAT Trainer; a few months later, I added 7sage to firm up the fundamentals. Less than $300 total. Period. And I think we can all see that money does not help on the LSAT. It is YOUR choice whether you truly want to do this.

It sounds like distance from the situation is what you need. And you need to put some work in. You can't pay someone to teach you the LSAT and think that's going to get you anywhere.

@sarkisp23 said:
If you don't work full-time, I'd say 4 months is good enough, though not great if you're aiming at reaching your full potential.

It MIGHT be good enough to get you to the low-mid 160's (heck, maybe even high 160's and beyond), but it's really going to depend on your mindset and wellbeing. It took me about a year to see myself even somewhat consistently 20 points above my diagnostic of 152 (granted, that's due in large part to a difference in the score range).

It depends on whether you really want to do this. Do you? If yes, pick up 7sage and the Trainer. Follow a schedule. Take care of your health. Remove toxicity from your life.

Don't want to do it right now? GREAT! If you realize that, I'm super happy about that. You'll spare yourself a lot of agony and maybe have, like, a life and stuff. And then when you're ready (when you've washed your hands of parental pressure ) you can go whole hog.

@sarkisp23 said:
have had 20+ point jumps by studying roughly 4-12 months.

Particular emphasis placed on the >4 months part of this range. Unicorns (people who have diagnostics in the mid-160's) are a different matter.

@daryab116 said:
I just feel really bad for wasting a lot of my parents money on previous LSAT tutoring and exams that didn't help me and I don't want to let them down again.

You just ... really ... need ... to forget this ...

@Pacifico said:
Since you can easily finish the Trainer and all of 7Sage in 6-8 weeks at a decent clip, you could still get in 20+ PTs before December.

Word. Just realize this is going to mean at least (!!!) 40 hours/week of committed study. If you're 100% focused 100% of the time, MAYBE you could do it in 30. But I'd count on this meaning at least 40 hours/week.

And don't forget about burnout, breaks, etc ... Honestly I just worry about setting yourself up for burnout and disappointment, especially given that you're already dealing with anxiety issues.

Slow down. You do you. Take care of yourself. Get serious. Realize this is meant to be hard.

And be honest with yourself. If you find out that you don't really want to do this, then walk away.

@Pacifico said:
This can absolutely be done in 4 months for most people, but what's the point? To relate back to my earlier point, it doesn't really sound like you want to go to law school and it sounds like you have a generally defeatist attitude (e.g.-should I give up, am I screwed, etc.)

100% agree.

@Pacifico said:
If yes, then get to work and we'll be here to help, but if not, you seriously need to remove yourself from the long shadow your parents are casting and just go and live your life.

Print this on a t-shirt and sell it to the masses.

nicole.hopkins

@daryab116 said:
am I completely screwed and should give up

If you're even asking this question, then it sounds like you might not really be convinced that law is your calling. I invite you to consider why you want to be an attorney. If making a lot of money is part of your thinking, then you need to walk away and go get yourself a nice MBA or become a commercial real estate broker.

sarkisp23

@nicole.hopkins Yeah exactly 4 months is really the minimum. You really should try to devote more time if you can. But depending on your LSAT/law school goals, maybe that's all the time you want to devote. You can still get a decent score jump in that time.

tamnRNC2

It really depends on the individual. I know some that took a prep course and did great on the LSAT after less than 4 months of studying. Others need a whole year to digest the materials. Others will score even better if they studied for 6 months instead of 4 months, but are nevertheless happy with their score after 4 months of study.

nicole.hopkins

@sarkisp23 said:
But depending on your LSAT/law school goals, maybe that's all the time you want to devote. You can still get a decent score jump in that time.

Very true. For folks happy with ~160-165, I'd say that for many, depending on the diagnostic (150+?), 4 months is adequate. It gets really hairy when the goal is 170+ (for many, except the unicorns).

nicole.hopkins

@tamnRNC2 said:
I know some that took a prep course and did great on the LSAT after less than 4 months of studying.

It depends on what "great" means and it depends on what the diagnostic is. For someone with a diagnostic under 150 with a 170+ goal (or a 140 diagnostic and a 165 goal), I haven't heard of many cases where this was achieved in 4 months. Not a single one comes to mind (of the former sort), but it is, of course, "possible."

It also depends on where your struggles lie. If you're naturally good at LR or RC and games are bad when you start, then that's a pretty good case for a major short-term improvement. If LR/RC really lag, that's where methinks you're looking at a longer term time investment. That stuff is just harder to learn/master than LG.

BUT. Unrealistic expectations are the killer where this test is concerned. If you had told me a year ago that I would only NOW even approach my target score (which is, by the way, about 5 points lower than what I initially thought my target score would/should be), I am not sure I would have had the courage to walk this long and winding road. If you had told me that I would plateau at 165 after 8 months of prep, plateau again at 169 for ~2 months, only to finally "break" that plateau to face some pretty big fluctuations (diminished returns), I would have been very discouraged. But as it is, I see that this is just the way it goes for some (=many ), and that my expectations were built on an unstable foundation.

daryab116

@nicole.hopkins @sarkisp23 @Pacifico thanks guys I actually decided that I'm going to take the LSAT in June or maybe next September/October (depending on how I'm feeling) to really give myself enough time to study and boost my confidence up. I know I can score well, it just takes time and I have to relax and not stress out about it so much.

nicole.hopkins

@daryab116 said:
thanks guys I actually decided that I'm going to take the LSAT in June or maybe next September/October

YOU ARE SO AWESOME. Wow, what courage! I commend your decision to do what's right for you

Very happy right now and proud of you, @daryab116 . I know this is a hard decision but it sounds like you're making it in a good frame of mind.

sarkisp23

You're definitely making the right choice and you're going to do very very well on the LSAT when you do write it @daryab116

nicole.hopkins

@sarkisp23 said:
you're going to do very very well on the LSAT when you do write it

A lot of people would be a little jealous of you

LSATisland

What was your method of studying for the 2 tests you took? How long did you study for?

ENTJ

@LSATisland My method was to pray to Jonah the great seeker of LSAT islands.

LSATisland

@ENTJ I would advise against the above.

ENTJ

Haha Jonah. I warmly welcome you back into the fray.

To all else: LSATisland is the shit.