PT25.S3.Q10&12 (G2) - each of six people

TheBatman

https://7sage.com/lsat_explanations/lsat-25-section-3-game-2/
Preptest 25 - Section 3 - Game 2

I don't get question 10 and 12!

Can someone help out for question 10? I don’t see why it’s not answer “C,” which allows four tourists to speak Turkish.

@dannyy121 Mentioned:

“For Q10, is it also possible that H,I,K all speak Turkish? My board looks like:
V: M
X: N
Y: H & I & K
Z: L

Each tourist can speak only one of the languages that the guide can speak. so in case where N and L speak Spanish, N can also go to X, since X speaks Spanish and Turkish?”

Because of this confusion, I chose answer "C," but the right answer is supposed to be "B."

Given the rules, I feel that this is an acceptable situation. What am I missing?

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For Q12, I don’t see why exactly 3 tourists don’t speak Spanish (answer “C”). My board looks like:

V: K
X: M & N
Y: H & I
Z: L

“M, N & L” all speak Spanish, which would make “C” a choosable answer. Can someone help me out here?

I don’t see where I went wrong. In my eyes answer “C” and “E” are right, and I chose answer “C,” but the right answer is supposed to be "E."

inactive

Bumping so more people see!

BinghamtonDave

Hey there, I am going to do this game now. I will have a write-up in a bit for your questions. Haven't forgotten about this thread

BinghamtonDave

So for your first question (question 10) you cannot have 4 of the tourists speaking Turkish under the constraint that L and N speak the same language. L is stationary in group Z-in order for L to fulfill what the question wants us to fulfill with L and N speaking the same language that language must be Spanish or Russian. Thus, if we try to put 4 tourists into a Turkish speaking group we run into one of two contradictions: We don't fulfill what the question asks of us or we leave one of the groups empty. The chart you have has N in a group speaking Turkish and we run into the first contradiction.

BinghamtonDave

Question 12 is a simple oversight that can be approached from one of two angles. We have 6 total pieces that we are placing. If H,I,M,N are all speaking something in common that is not Spanish, then by definition the absolute max we can have speaking Spanish would be 6 minus 4. We can deduce that they are not speaking Spanish because Spanish is not available to H and I in group Y.

The next way we can deduce this CBT is to put HIMN speaking French (someone has to go in group V out of N or M) or have HIMN all speaking Turkish split in groups X and Y. The latter formulation yields answer choice (E).

So to review, there are a number of boards we must quickly visualize to get this CBT correct. The board I zeroed in on had NM speaking Turkish in group X, HI speaking Turkish in group Y and K left over to speak French in the only group without a tourist.

BinghamtonDave

The pattern my friend in both of your questions was not looking at precisely what the question stem is asking us to set up. This is something great to isolate. For question 10 your board did not follow the conditions of the question. For question 12 your board did not follow the conditions of the question. A tip I have picked up along the way: if a question seems ridiculously hard on games or you have eliminated all the answers or you have chosen 2 possible answers: go back and read the question, 9/10 times for me it has been a misunderstanding of the question stem.

TheBatman

@David3389 said:
The pattern my friend in both of your questions was not looking at precisely what the question stem is asking us to set up. This is something great to isolate. For question 10 your board did not follow the conditions of the question. For question 12 your board did not follow the conditions of the question. A tip I have picked up along the way: if a question seems ridiculously hard on games or you have eliminated all the answers or you have chosen 2 possible answers: go back and read the question, 9/10 times for me it has been a misunderstanding of the question stem.

That is great advice.

Thanks @David3389 I finally get it!

For Q9, no matter what we do, at least two tourists speak French, because H & I are always speaking French. I don’t get how the answer is not “D.”

For example:
V: M
X: K
Y: H & I
Z: L

Floater: N

Any thoughts on that one?

BinghamtonDave

Yeah, 9 is a MBT meaning that in all worlds there will be something that given our initial conditions and the specifications of the question: will hold. The trickiest things to eliminate in MBT questions in the games are CBTs that have popped up in several of our worlds and require a bit of moving around and checking with the rules to eliminate (which is what I have done at the bottom.)

The question is asking us to have K and L speak the same language. That condition is met in really 3 possible ways: 1.They both speak Russian in group Z. 2.They both speak Spanish in group Z. 3. They both speak Spanish but are split with K speaking Spanish in group X and L speaking Spanish in group Z.

No matter how you draw out those possibilities you have N and M left over to go into group V. Someone of those 2 has to go there because it cannot be left blank. That's our MBT.

Now for (D) can we falsify (D) and still have a functioning set that doesn't violate the conditions? Sure.
V (French): M
X (Turkish/Spanish): S and N
Y(French/Turkish):H and I
Z(Spanish/Russian):L

Above we have 1 total that speaks French, thus rendering the "At least 2" only a CBT.

TheBatman

@David3389 said:
Yeah, 9 is a MBT meaning that in all worlds there will be something that given our initial conditions and the specifications of the question: will hold. The trickiest things to eliminate in MBT questions in the games are CBTs that have popped up in several of our worlds and require a bit of moving around and checking with the rules to eliminate (which is what I have done at the bottom.)

The question is asking us to have K and L speak the same language. That condition is met in really 3 possible ways: 1.They both speak Russian in group Z. 2.They both speak Spanish in group Z. 3. They both speak Spanish but are split with K speaking Spanish in group X and L speaking Spanish in group Z.

No matter how you draw out those possibilities you have N and M left over to go into group V. Someone of those 2 has to go there because it cannot be left blank. That's our MBT.

Now for (D) can we falsify (D) and still have a functioning set that doesn't violate the conditions? Sure.
V (French): M
X (Turkish/Spanish): S and N
Y(French/Turkish):H and I
Z(Spanish/Russian):L

Above we have 1 total that speaks French, thus rendering the "At least 2" only a CBT.

Awesome. Thanks!!!