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Related Discussions
Full ride- low rank
I took December and February lsat. I started applying with my December score. Golden Gate's aggressive email advertising and fee waiver made me apply there. I wanted to send a first-tester app, to a low rank school, just to give the process a dry run. Well, I got in with my fIrst score, almost full ride, and pre admitted for their honor student program... I took February lsat, but decided not to check my score. Apps are sent, schools know.
Now, the question is: would you consider going to a no-rank school for free? Would finding a job be an issue? Any of you with similar experiences?
What to do?
- What would you do64 votes
- Go to higher ranked school78.13%
- Accept the offer and have no debt21.88%
Comments
I'd look at your score before I decided something like that. Unless you absolutely positively must go to LS now, you might want to retake. It sounds like you aren't sold on this school.
You're right I'm not sold on it and will wait for other decisions. However, no debt seems tempting.
No debt is tempting. But you want to make sure it will get you where you want to go. There is a low-ranked local school here that I applied to but the biggest reason I likely won't go is the scholarship money. (They don't really give full rides, and scholarships are conditional.) Otherwise, they don't have name recognition but they place really well in the area here and might be a good fit. But I don't want to take out significant loans for a school that might have a higher risk of getting a good paying job and also has low portability. For unconditional full ride + stipend, I'd keep it in consideration. So, it's kind of a sliding scale. It's important to check out outcomes - find out employment stats and see how many grads are getting the kinds of jobs you want and what their salaries are.
Also depends on how low the school is. If you're not sold because you think your degree is going to be laughed at (cough, cough, AZ summit, cough) , then you just spent 3 years of your time and effort on something that doesn't help you with your goals. Even if it's not money, you've spent time. You'd be better spending a year bringing up your score (if that becomes a problem), and getting that sweet ride at a better school that you're excited about. I may well be in the same boat. And that will be what I will do if it comes to that. Wait a year, do better, get better offers.
I don't know my second score yet.
LOOK AT YOUR SCORE! YOU ARE TRYING TO MAKE HUGE DECISIONS WITHOUT IMPORTANT PIECES OF INFORMATION! DONT BE A FOOL!
A fool?! I know where I practiced and where I applied. I don't want to judge my whole application by just one factor. I tend to overthink and think the worse. I'm happy with waiting for schools to decide on my whole app
I have to agree with everyone else, you will eventually have to check the new score. A higher score can give you more possibilities to scholarship negotiations.
Regarding Golden Gate, I personally think it depends on:
1. What kind of law you hope to practice and
2. Where you'd like to practice (if you want to stay in SF/Bay Area or somewhere else)
I will find out the score, I'm aware. Just, I'm sick of stressing over this piece of information. I want to do it in my own timing. It's my decision and I don't feel like having to defend it here.
You're right. It's your decision and you should stand by it. That being said, sorry if you felt like I was attacking you or something ---- because that was never my intention. Best of luck to you!
It's cool! Lol. And don't worry I won't decide on anything without checking the score first. Good luck to you as well!
Hey @olioliber if your apps are already in then there's no need to check your score. The question becomes, however, are all your apps in? If so, then you're fine and you can take your time checking your LSAT score but if you haven't submitted all your apps then I'd lean on checking your score to help you find schools where you're in their median (safety reasons).
To be frank, I haven't checked my LSAT score from the Feb test as well. However, I've applied to all my law schools already so there really is no need for me to check my score (unless I want to go through an emotional roller-coaster). If this is you, then you're super fine.
I reccomend applying to Chapman and U of San Diego if you want full rides at lower ranked schools. San Diego places really well in San Diego. All the well known OC firms are filled with recent Chapman grads. At Golden Gate, you will be competing with students from Stanford, Berkeley, Hastings, Santa Clara for both internships and jobs. I don’t think it’s a good idea to go there even for free. Please take into consideration how expensive it is to live in SF/the Bay, especially while you are in school.
I have many friends in their late 20s with Master's degrees living in SF, working at big companies like Yelp and tech companies, making 85-100k a year, and they live with 3+ roommates in shitty areas of SF. Although they aren't broke nor struggling, and they do enjoy their lives, they are by no means well off. They pretty much still live a college student lifestyle and do not have the money to invest in their future. Making 100k at SF is like making 50k in less affluent areas. I don't think a Golden Gate degree can even guarantee you 100k.
Yup, all are in. 20 apps
Did you make sure there is no minimum GPA stipulated in the scholarship?
That is really important because schools will sometimes stipulate a certain GPA which seems achievable and then use the law school curve and section packing to make sure some students lose their scholarships. If you are in a section full of other people with scholarships and all of you need above median grades to keep your scholarships, that scholarship can't be counted on at all.
First thing.
I heard section stacking is a myth from past students and admissions consultant. Still, nonconditional scholarships r the way to go
It could have largely disappeared as a result of attention. I'm not sure that makes it a myth. Either way you shouldn't count on competing against a curve.
It seems like @olioliber isn't counting on success to keep a scholarship if it is unconditional. That's good because Golden Gate is a school which still gives out conditional scholarships.
As to whether someone should go or not its going to depend on your options, how much it costs, and how badly you want to be a lawyer.
40 percent of the class drops after the first year. About half of these people are listed as dropping for academic reasons(I think this means they fail out). A quarter transfer (presumably up to a more respectable school). A quarter drop for other reasons(It could be anything, but at least some of these are likely the scholarship losers). @olioliber could flunk out, but he probably has an edge over his classmates and won't. He won't transfer up because he is turning down the respectable schools for the scholarship and it doesn't make sense to do that just to turn around and pay full price at one for two years with a year at Golden Gate on your resume. He won't lose his scholarship since he tells us that it is not conditional (61 out of the 106 students at Golden Gate last year with conditional scholarships had them reduced or elliminated).
http://www.abarequireddisclosures.org
So Olioliber will soldier on with the 60 percent who survive 1L. 5 percent more drop after 2L. Summer jobs or volunteering come and go and Olioliber graduates.
This is the exciting part. We eother get a job or don't and either pass the Bar on the first time or don't here.
Most of your classmates won't. Of the 55 percent of the entering class who graduate the vast majority take the California bar. In 2015 over 60 percent failed the first time. Maybe as one of the nearly10 percent of the class who started with a full tuition scholarship, you'll pass though.
It seems like about a quarter of students get full time legal jobs.
http://www.ggu.edu/media/law/documents/career-development/ggu-aba-employment-summary-class-of-2014.pdf
Maybe your going to be one of them too. If you are, the median pay is $60,000 a year which with no debt I would consider a decent outcome. However, I undoubtedly think that because I don't live in California. Maybe though with a spouse and no children $120,000 a year in California could be a good outcome?
It seems like a last desparate recourse. I'm not going to say this is always a bad option. It might be better than going deeply into debt for a marginally better shot at a legal job. My question would be whether you are absolutely sure that you can't get the full tuition scholarship somewhere where you will definitely come out with a legal job. I'm not talking about a shot at Big Law. I'm talking about solid odds of getting a full time legal job. And if you can't this cycle, could you after studying for the LSAT for one more year?
I just want to say — 60k a year, take out taxes, is less than 50k. A super super cheap rare to find studio apt in SF is gonna be over $2k/month. So, you’ll either live in a really shitty area for a little under $2k/month, or live with many roommates in an okay area for probably $1k/month (unless you share a room). I can’t speak for ALL of California but this does seem to be pretty typical.
Making less than $50k as a single person in California is barely liveable unless you have 0 debt, live with roommates, drive an old car/don’t drive a car, have really cheap insurance, and live far from major cities. Finding a decent room to rent for $500 (not including utilities) is a really rare find and you won’t be in a major city nor in a nice neighborhood.
Also, median pay does not = what you’re gonna actually make. You need to break down the stats to specifically what % of students make which exact dollar amount to get a feel for which salary you’ll be likely to end up with.
As a socal resident, i totally agree. Housing prices in and around major metros have been getting more and more expensive. In cities like irvine, its common for nornal to hover around the high 700k to low million range.
Seriously there are so many UCI students paying 1k to share a room in Irvine. I've seen ads posted for $800 to share a room with 2 other people.
Schools receive your feb score, why don't you want to know the new score they will be basing a large chunk of your application on? At the end of the day, it's your decision, and I respect it, but I think it would be good to know your new score in case you should be aiming for better schools than you applied to, possibly?
Also, don't go to Golden Gate. Honestly, their employment stats are not very good. (https://www.lstreports.com/schools/goldengate/)
Hope everything works out for you, though. Best of luck!
I work in CA State Government. Our Chief Counsel went to Golden Gate for Law school and he has had a very successful career but he struggled when he first left Golden Gate. He became a legal secretary for a few years and when he asked the law firm when they would consider hiring him as an attorney, they laughed. They said they couldn't hire him as an attorney because he went to Golden Gate. He eventually did well after years of hard work. He worked at the Department of Justice for over a decade working in labor laws and issues before becoming chief counsel at a different state agency. School rank isn't everything but it does help initially when looking for employment. Good luck with your decision!
I haven't read the comments posted above yet. Pay attention to Golden Gate's bar passage numbers and their employment statistics. I'm in the Bay Area and I've been told by an attorney that the schools to go to here are: 1. Stanford/Berkeley 2. Hastings 3. Santa Clara. He straight up told me Golden Gate and the rest are meh.
I would do some serious reflection before making this decision. Good luck!
I was talking to an admissions person about rankings and a lot of schools buy their spots to get to the top and it can be very unfair. You also have to consider, that by going to a higher ranked school you're gonna have to compete more to get to the top. If you're not part of the top X%, having that school on your resume won't matter. I would talk to current students and make sure you feel like it would be a place you feel will make you into a good lawyer, because in the end that's what matters is getting the skills needed to get you employed.