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Parenting, family, social life, and Law School
LSAT_Wrecker
Member ⭐
Now seems as good a time as any to start a thread near and dear to some people considering law school. Is it possible to maintain some sort of balance between the rigorous demands of law school and an "outside" life that includes parents, friends, other activities? ETA: Spoiler alert, I personally think the answer to the question is YES for 100% of people. Sometimes that fact gets lost in translation / open discussion. Nothing worth having is easy and law school definitely falls into the category of not easy, but what are some thoughts /suggestions / experiences on the ability to maintain a life outside of law school.
I am particularly interested in this aspect of the law school decision. I'm a non-traditional student in his mid-40's, 4 children (only 1 of which lives at home), with a spouse with a demanding career and her own PhD study demands. I volunteer a significant amount of time to one of my children's school (3-4 days a week typically). Scheduling is huge in my life. 25 years of military service, multiple deployments, and a 2 year unaccompanied tour (me-Japan, family-USA) have provided context that, for me, make the time demands of law school and the ability to stay engaged in family life one of the key factors in my decision of if/when/where to attend law school.
I've spoken with a couple of current law students at the two schools at the top of my list and also to other practicing lawyers that are either existing friends or kind souls that responded to one of the numerous cold emails I sent out some of the public defenders / DAs in my local area. A few thoughts on time management they gave me, as it specifically applies to maintaining a school / balance:
Note: Each of these recommendations has been told to me by more than one independent source. As I have not been to law school, I don't know how good / bad they are, but they are meaningful to me given what are my variables.
Consider law school your job from day 1. Establish a typical "working stiff" schedule (8-4, 9-5, etc) and maintain it religiously. Wake up, get the kids to school and go straight to your own campus. Stay there all day. If you are not in class, spend that time reading / studying / preparing for class. Do not engage in social media / internet surfing during your work day. Go home at the end of "your day" and leave school at school.
Consider legal social engagements and assesses the ROI of attendance at each event you consider. Functions that are networking opportunities or faculty touch points > Thursday night Margaritas with the study group. Make time for some peer engagement, but don't feel you have to go out every night after study and get your drink on. There will always be someone going out, consider whether you really need to join them.
Try to reserve one entire day for non-law school activities (typically either Saturday or Sunday). Let the people important to you know about this day so you can control their expectation management. When that day comes, commit to it fully (do not sneak in study / reading / class prep).
Chose 1 law school "extra-curricular" interest group and devote time to it singularly instead of less time to multiple groups.
Sometimes, good enough is better than perfect. Will one more hour of reading help? In truth, probably. However, at some point, there is a point of diminishing returns to study / reading / case prep and your life outside of law school needs some attention.
Starting at ~ exams minus 1 month, all of the above go out the window. Now is the time to grind and crank up the coffee pot to max capacity. Again (similar to note 3), tell those important people in your life about this period long before it starts so they know and are mentally prepared to see less of you. They can also help support you during this time.
Polish your resume before starting school. It will be needed long before you think it will be.
deep breath For me, law school is about choices and balancing those things that are important to each individual student (and me in my own case). Preparing for it is also often portrayed as a world of binary choices (go/don't go, I have to go this /next year, I have to go to X school / Y tier of school). Most times, those binary choices are not, in fact, based in reality; nor are conversations about them intended to be. We each have to weigh our own variables and make the right decision for us as an individual and for those important to us (family, friends). In most circumstances, the answer isn't clearly black / white, go / don't go, or yes / no. More often, the choice really is a wider menu selection of here / there, now / later, this option / that option. More information often helps better inform that decision; hence this thread.
I'm currently reading Law School Insights by Dakota Duncan, a non-traditional law school graduate who wrestled with many of the same issues concerning family life / law school. I'm only through the first chapter and its been slow thus far, but will provide any nuggets when I come across them.
What are other 7Sager's thoughts on the topic / sources of good material referencing these issues?
Comments
^This really spoke to me.
I don't have too much to add, since I think you did an amazing job laying it all out. I am excited this conversation is happening as I feel it is all too often missing in those law school application conversations. For me, I want to start a family soon-ish and having an infant while in law school is going to be ridiculously hard. Having an infant while in law school but surrounded by close and extended family makes it a tad easier.
Thanks for starting a place to chat about this. I’m kind of one foot in both camps of people. Older and non-traditional, but single and no kids. I’m grateful that I can easily pack up and move to whatever school is the best fit for me. But I have some concerns about finding a social group in school and still having work/life balance. Just because I don’t have kids or a spouse doesn’t mean I have the energy of a 25 year old haha. I know for my sanity and health, I’ll need to have time away from it too.
A lot of your advice is what I have heard. Treat it like a job and you can have evenings off (except for exam time). I know it will be tough because I haven’t always been the most disciplined, but can be when needed. For my health, I know I need to not be pulling all nighters, which means no procrastination and being disciplined about sleep. That certainly means it’ll be different from undergrad for me haha.
It’s good to hear the same advice coming from another source. Sounds like confirmation that it can be done with discipline and focus.
Almost 40, one kid here. This post really spoke to me. My wife is making a huge sacrifice to support my goal of becoming an attorney. The one price I wouldn't be willing to pay for law school would be my family's well being. I've talked to a few student/parents and several of them echoed the advice about treating it as a job. They really tried to maximize their day on campus. I think one advantage we have going as older students is that in most cases, we're accustomed to a full work day. My plan is to drop of my kid at daycare, spend my day "at the office" and pick up my kid from daycare. My commute is likely to be on the bus and I'm actually looking forward to spending that time with my kid. As a side note, one of the reasons my front running schools is my top choice is that they actually lump the parents into one section and try to schedule that sections classes during daycare hours.
Great post! I appreciate the insight and information. I too am in my 40's, single/no children, and agree with @"Leah M B". #1 is good advice to consider law school like a job. However, unlike others, I will have to work FT and attend law school PT/evenings. The dynamics will be a lot different I'm sure. Any advice on how to manage a FT job and law school PT?
@teamteamvicster It definitely can be done. My wife made it through her last three months of pregnancy and the first six months of our daughter’s life during the last year of her nursing BSN (including class work and clinicals) while I was in Iraq. Luckily, we were able move her back home to her mother’s during that period, so she definitely had a support network helping out. It does take careful planning and work, but it is possible. Good luck!
@marcosmcqueen I think a school grouping parents like that is actually pretty awesome, as long as there are no unintended consequences (battling the curve against the car pool). Sounds like one school actually listened to some student feedback.
My coworker is doing this right now. My impression is it's just really hard, but you do it. Scheduling to the nth degree. Saving your vacation days at work and not being afraid to use them around exam time. Our job is supportive of her school; I think it would be even harder at a job that wasn't. Get good at figuring out what you need to survive/thrive vis a vis food, exercise, rest, et cetera - you still will be a person who needs renewal. You will just have to be very efficient as to how.
Great points @LSAT_Wrecker. With two young kids, this is foremost on my mind. Just last week my 4 year-old was sick and was home all week. I barely got any studying done because I needed to take care of her and just be with her. It worries me that if this happened while in school, what would I do? Hire a nanny? My husband take off work? Its so tough.
I do have a question for you and others about one point that is being made - treating law school like a 9-5 job. I'm not so sure that is possible (I mean, I hope it is, but I'm just trying to be realistic). I have visited several schools and most of the students who gave the tours would tell us that the school schedule is from 8- 4 or 9-3 (basically most of the day) and then they would study after their classes - this is every day! Yikes! As you all know, reading is a huge component - I can't imagine going to class all day and then coming home and doing no homework/reading. I just don't know how that is possible and still have a passing grade. This is why I'm thinking of staying on campus for a few days a week - for that study time. I'm not even sure my husband would agree to my idea but that is my thinking right now.
Good luck! Just go into it making this decision with eyes wide open - when I had my son I had to stop working because of my difficult delivery and because he was such a fussy baby. He cried all the time : ( and I healed very slowly after the delivery. The first year of his life was very, very difficult for me. I'm not saying this will happen to you but it was a huge shock and life change for me. Also, if you are planning on nursing, know that it can make it more difficult - feedings, pumping, etc. Having family nearby would certainly help and I send you nothing but good wishes if you have a baby while in law school!! Good luck!
Your post really hits home for me. My wife and I are both 30 and planning on having kids within the next year.That means there's a good chance I'll be a father once I start law school. We're both insanely busy at the moment. My wife currently works around 80 hours a week and will be for the next few years. We've had numerous conversations about when we'll even have the time to start and raise a family, all while juggling our demanding careers. This situation weighs heavily on me, and I think the recommendations you mentioned are so crucial to maintaining a semblance of sanity in the midsts of a busy life. The last thing I want is to be a distant and overly stressed father to my children, and I think proper time management is so crucial to having some sort of work/life balance. On a similar note, my wife has colleagues who are mothers/fathers working 80 plus hours a week and they've been able to handle it. They seem to be doing alright. Ultimately, I believe people are capable of enduring more than they think. When challenging circumstances arise you just learn to deal with them out of necessity, or so I hope!
Thanks for your post.
Disclaimer: This is NOT meant to be an attack on "traditional" KJD students, its just one dude's opinion.
@LCMama2017 I'm right there with you. As the primary child care provider / grocery-getter in my house hold, my ability to support my family and allow my wife to focus on her job unimpeded by domestic responsibilities weighs heavily into my analysis. I will say the feedback I have gotten from older, 2nd career type students / lawyers is very different from the few traditional KJD students I have talked to.
One practicing attorney with ~10 years of military service prior to going to law school gave me the following general outline of his day, "Wife and I would wake up, feed and get the kid to school, and I would show up to campus around 7:30. I reserved a library study room from 8-5 every day of the week. I typically had class 3-5 hours a day Monday-Thursday. No class on Friday. When I was not in class, I went straight to my study room and worked, including Fridays. I did not take books home until exam prep time."
Feedback from a full ride 1L (KJD) going to one my top choices, "I'm in class all day and then I come home and study until 10:00 or 11:00. I have given up all of my favorite television shows and don't have much of a social life." When asked about the actual hour to hour details of her day, the 1L gets kinda nebulous and talks about things like talking to her peers, grabbing a snack, etc. She never mentions actually studying at school or places conducive to do so, even when I asked her specific questions about those two items.
For me, I suspect that reality will be something in between the two extremes (I cannot for the life of me imagine not bringing books / notes home at any point in law school). Like people have mentioned in other similar threads, the real life experience of working, living, parenting / adulting gives us older students a different perspective on time management. I'm not saying we're necessarily better / worse. We just have actual experience with maintaining a schedule and prioritizing and de-conflicting competing events in our lives. The one thing I do know is that since I have parenting responsibilities and scheduling that must be maintained, things like sleeping in or going out at night won't be part of my typical routine. Not that I didn't do such things at some point in my life (my LSAC GPA clearly reflects that I did); however, that's not where I am currently; nor where a lot of the older, parenting non-traditional students are. I worry a lot about the sick kid thing, the unexpected call from the school office (case-in-point: school shut down today due to a burst pipe at my daughter's school), and the hastily scheduled Girl Scout meeting that causes a conflict with my schedule.
I am in no way doubting the intellectual challenge of law school and the time demands it will require to do well. I know it will be hard and I will spend a whole lot of time studying. But I also know that when faced with a choice of gunning for that far right place on the bell curve or taking a study break to go coach my daughter's basket ball team, the choice won't be that hard for me. I also know that a lot of times, the perception of the unknown is often much more daunting and intimidating that the reality of that same event.
@Ignatius Thanks for your comment. I look at parenting this way: My daughter doesn't really care how much money I make, how accomplished I am at my profession, or what letters I may have before or after my name. What she does care about is whether I show up for lunch duty every Wednesday at her school and whether I'm on time with the snacks for her running team on Mondays and Wednesday afternoons.
I may be digressing a bit from the theme of this post, but to me, time is the most absolutely valuable resource we have for our children and it should be guarded wisely. Even by law school students.
Ooh.. A new book to check out (Law School Insights by Dakota Duncan). Thanks!
Excellent analysis @LSAT_Wrecker ! I'm currently in a similar situation where I'm studying for the LSAT and hoping to go to law school within the next year but my wife and I are interested in starting a family soon. I'll be leaving the military after 10 years to pursue law and we really don't want to wait until after law school to begin our family and my wife is excited to continue her career without the instability inherent with a military lifestyle. It's really weighed heavily on my mind whether school would be too demanding with a young family, however, I've really come to realize that it's just going to be another job. I get up at 0500 as it is, work until 6pm, and then spend evening time with the family so there's no reason why I wouldn't maintain that type of work ethic in school. Like you, my LSAC GPA is painful due to my lack of discipline over a decade ago but now, with life experience, I'm ready to kill it. Besides, there's no way any law school can compare to the BS you have to deal with when you're enlisted lol.
Thank you @speedwagon for your response/advice! And yes, I totally agree. It'll be hard, but you do it. Just press through it. Do you think your co-worker would mind sharing her experience with me?
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