Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Categories
- 33.6K All Categories
- 28.2K LSAT
- 17.1K General
- 5.2K Logical Reasoning
- 1.4K Reading Comprehension
- 1.7K Logic Games
- 70 Podcasts
- 192 Webinars
- 11 Scholarships
- 194 Test Center Reviews
- 2.2K Study Groups
- 112 Study Guides/Cheat Sheets
- 2.5K Specific LSAT Dates
- 36 November 2024 LSAT
- 18 October 2024 LSAT
- 9 September 2024 LSAT
- 38 August 2024 LSAT
- 28 June 2024 LSAT
- 4 April 2024 LSAT
- 11 February 2024 LSAT
- 22 January 2024 LSAT
- 38 November 2023 LSAT
- 43 October 2023 LSAT
- 14 September 2023 LSAT
- 38 August 2023 LSAT
- 27 June 2023 LSAT
- 30 Sage Advice
- 5K Not LSAT
- 4.1K Law School Admissions
- 13 Law School Explained
- 10 Forum Rules
- 647 Technical Problems
- 288 Off-topic
Related Discussions
153 and 174 BR average
J.CHRIS.ALST
Alum Member
My diagnostic was 143.
Out of 4 tests in the past 4 weeks, my actual scores range from 149 to 159. I finished the CC several months ago. Ever since, I have been drilling and along some fool proofing. I have been trying to raise my competence in all sections, which is why I haven't done the1-36 fool proof yet. There has at least been some success in my efforts, as my BRs range from 172 to 177 - I don't know what my BR would have been on my diagnostic - I didn't know BR existed at the time.
I do take breaks every once and awhile. I've actually been taking a break for 4 days now, and I might stay away from any material for another day or two. I have been studying for this test since June of 2017 (I took August off because I was starting two new jobs and moved to new apartment). Given the fact that I have spent 9.5 months on the LSAT, as you can probably imagine, I'm conflicted with my progress. On one hand I am happy to see my BR be in the mid 170s; it took many hours and nights to get there. However, most importantly, I am frustrated that I'm averaging a 153 (roughly -7 to -10 on all section types). Some of this is attributed to lack of confidence/fear/anxiety, I'm sure. But, I've been around on these forums for quite some time now, and I don't recall seeing too many posts about people who have as great a difference between one's actual score vs BR score, which is unsettling.
I've read countless articles about this test, and my many hours of reading and research are telling me that speed is simply a measure of your level of understanding. So, how do I achieve that type of understanding? It seems that doing 35 minute timed sections isn't doing much for me at the moment, other than freak me out. Should I time myself doing a section and not stress the 35 minutes instead? It's weird because if I do timed sections in 35 minutes right now, I could form bad habits because I will be rushing. Too, I could form bad habits by doing sections with more time than what is normally allowed. Any suggestions as to what I should do in this respect? Should it be a combination of both?
My plan at the moment is to fool proof LG 1-36 and to get that down to -0. I also think focusing on LR and RC on the weekends so as to maintain what I have would be a good idea, but I plan on spending the bulk of weekdays doing full sections of LG and really trying to dissect how the games work. Beyond the fool proofing though, I really am at a loss as to what to do.
Thank you for your time.
P.S. - My goal is 170. My goal for quite some time now has been to take this thing in September - but the likelihood of that is decreasing as the days go by.
Comments
That is definitely frustrating to see such a big gap. The good news is your BR score seems to say the comprehension is there (definitely keeping aiming for the 179/180 range, though).
It looks like the plan you laid out at the end is pretty solid. Have you looked to see what your scores would be had you missed zero on LG? It's a doable goal so I would keep tabs on that benchmark as well.
What helped me before I got into 35 minute sections was "soft" timed sections. Like you've read, going fast can build bad habits. My first reaction reading your post was to take some pressure off of yourself by just noting when time was done, but not stopping. At this stage I wasn't even scoring tests, just aiming to first get my time down to where I could finish, and then to get my missed questions down to at least -3 on average. In my experience, those two goals progressed in tandem. If you're going slowly enough to be accurate with a soft timer, the speed will come. I joined this soft-timed strategy with a more aggressive BR approach. I didn't just review the circled questions. I did the entire section twice. Any question I missed or hesitated on went into an Evernote notebook I still use, and it's now full of those tricky question. Once every week or two I ran down the entire list and moved questions that I knew cold out of that collection and into a second one which I reviewed much less frequently. On these questions, there are a couple of things that really helped my LR ability: 1) review every answer choice 2) if possible figure out when answer choices could be correct if the question type had been something else (I.e. is there a weaken question masquerading as a necessary assumption). There are several exercises you could find mentioned on these forums or just improvise that play on question types. Don't take a question out of rotation until you understand every bit of it - wrong answers and all.
For RC I treated it like LR in the sense that I kept a list of the worst passages. I work through the stack more slowly as I don't find doing them rote as useful as the other sections, and I want to forget as much as possible about them between takes.
Hopefully something in there is helpful!
Your story seems to bode pretty well for your future lsat success.
You've taken 4 PTs and consistently BR them in the 170s. Your timed scores are ~155.
So you have a pretty good grasp of the material but you're not comfortable enough with any of it yet to do it timed. That's a pretty good place to be in, actually. It's a matter of exposure, cookie-cutter review, developing time management processes, and foolproofing. Try not to get discouraged by your score as it currently stands. There is lots of work ahead for you but your BR score should give you the needed confidence that it will pay off.
I think your focus should be on LG and LR at this point. It's been my experience that LR improvement flows into RC and your time focused on RC, as a result, is better spent after you're strong in LR.
Check out this webinar on how to proceed after the CC https://7sage.com/webinar/post-core-curriculum-study-strategies/
Hey there first of all congrats on you BR score, that's amazing! Just to clarify, when you say your BR score, it's not the case that you're already aware of which questions are wrong and then you go back and BR them right? I only ask because it will help us tailor strategies for you based specifically on your needs.
I agree you should full-proof games, and yes, speed comes with understanding but it also comes with confidence. If you are truly BR-ing in the 170s then I think it might be a timing/confidence issue for you. Do you employ skipping strategies when you do LR? Are you getting your games done under the recommended 7sage time? How's your RC?
There's confidence drills you can do that a lot of sage's have discussed where you lower the threshold for confidence (say 85%) when doing a question. So if you're 85% sure you have the correct AC, you circle and move on. Tweaking these things can show you where you're lacking confidence perhaps. BR-ing will show increase your understanding but also help you determine which questions it might be difficult to understand during timed sections, so that's what you circle and skip as well.
You can also try recording yourself to see which questions you spend too long on. Are you 90% sure something is right and then waste another 30 seconds or so confirming it's right.
You can try meditating, it's something that a lot of people on the forums have recommended to help with timing. You can also try doing sections untimed - but keep a stopwatch or something to measure time - and see how that works out for you. That will help determine if it is a confidence issue and whether you're just getting stressed out by the time limit.
I go straight from test to BR - BR takes me days to do. However, throughout the course of those several days I do not look at the correct ACs.
You say your BR takes you days - are you only BRing after the full test? Are you always sitting for full timed PTs? I gained a lot of ground when I started doing a single section and reviewing it right after or sometimes the next day. (Generally I did this with much older tests).
Well for a while I was working on just LG and RC. I would BR the RC in that same night and typically got -3 BR, which is consistent with what I usually get on a full PT BR.
If I take a full PT, I wait until the end to BR it, if that is what you're asking.
Yeah! My impression is you might benefit from laying off full PT's for a bit. Do a section per day. Review the day of or the next day. Focus on missing fewer per section rather than stressing over the the score of the whole PT. Again, I'd do them with a soft timer on so you can gauge how many you're getting to in 35 minutes without developing any bad habits from rushing.
That's great, so based off that and your BR score, I think with a few tweaks it would be possible for you to start scoring 160s timed. Because your BR score is indicative of your theoretical maximum potential, and clearly you are BR-ing in the 170s, so you definetly need to work on timing and confidence drills. I know you're scared of developing bad habits and having that mess with you but just the fact that you're aware of these habits will help.
Honestly, the first thing that you should do is start full-proofing games. That -7 or -10 in games to 0 to even -2 will bring your score up to around 160.
Second of all, with LR, you should do one or two sections timed, and try to implement skipping strategies. Try the 25 questions in 25 minutes or 20 in 20 or 15 in 15 to see which works best for you. The basic idea is to lay your eyes on x amount of questions in x amount of minutes. You read the q-stem and stimulus, eliminate what you can, circle the question, and move on. For the easier questions you'll have eliminated all 4 or 3. This way you can come back with some-what fresh eyes and confidently choose the answer choice and move on. I'd also suggest trying to become more comfortable with not being 100% comfortable with answer choices. And by that I mean, really record or time yourself, or during BR, think about how long you spent on a question going from 80% certainty to 100% certainty about your answer and you didn't end up changing it.
Agreed with jkatz, this is actually a pretty good place to be in because you have the knowledge and understanding and it's just about application now.
Hey!
I just wanted to tell you i am in a similar situation as you and want to encourage you to keep hanging in there!
My diagnostic was 153, which was taken February 2017. My PT scores fluctuate, but it's basically at 157. It is very, very disheartening to see very little improvement in the score although Ive been doing nothing but studying for the lsat for the past 13+ months. Some mornings i wake up with a mini panic attack blaming myself for not having made sufficient improvement.
Like you, my BR score is in the 170's. The huge gap is there and like many others who posted above, I think it is a good place to be. We need to be more exposed to the material and be comfortable with the language of the test. BR process is where we become closer friends with the LSAT writers' logic and language. So lets keep BRing in good faith.
Games are my nemesis at the moment. Im foolproofing again to get familiar with the section. Ive been trying to befriend it for many months, but im not there yet. Hopefully i will gain some points here, although its taking me longer than it takes for most people.
The great wisdom in lsat prep is that time follows accuracy. I was so discourged that it wasnt the case for me because i was at a loss for analyzing stimulus under time pressure. The skills I used for the BR process didnt seem to translate into the timed sections where i felt i was solving questions on a whim. But i think we just need to be exposed to more patterns in the exam and flex our brain muscles so that they immediately recognize the logic no matter what content is thrown at us. With practice, i really believe that we will be able to efficiently and systematically attack LR questions in timed sections.
I remember i was so scared by certain recurrent subject matter such as heart disease, economy, paleontology that i even grouped questions by subject matter to review them. There are indeed recurrent topics in LR and to minimize stress and panic, getting familiar with them has helped me with confidence when im doing a timed section or PT.
Im honestly trying everything to get better at this exam lolol.
Lets keep hanging in there! In particular, let's rejoice in gaining small and meaningful victories in LG each day. You can do it!!!!!!!!!
I would give yourself time to do 25-30 tests and make sure you're skipping a lot, so the questions you're getting wrong timed you might have time to go back to at the end of the section with some fresh insight that was before reserved for BR.
Sorry for the late reply back - I just went ahead and took a full week off and wasn't on the forums for the rest of the week. I REALLY appreciate these insights. I feel a little better about where I am at right now in this process!
A lot of great advice on this already, and I just wanted to reinforce a few of the points from above.
It's a big gap, but it's neither terribly uncommon or reason for concern. To my eye, these stats look as encouraging as any.
False. Speed is not simply a measure of your level of understanding. Understanding is a factor--a big one--but it's prerequisite to several others that are also necessary. Your BR score suggests you have, or at least are well on your way to acquiring, plenty of understanding. Now you need to put that understanding to good use by taking the next steps, which I'll get to.
I cover a lot of things relevant to your situation in this webinar, so if you haven't already watched it, I think it could be helpful!
This is so spot on. Perfectly diagnosed keets. Better understanding the relationships between confidence, timing, and ultimately performance is going to be essential to how you move forward. If you record yourself and watch it back, I would bet you my top score that you're spending at least 5 minutes over the course of a timed LR section confirming answers that you already know are correct. You're probably taking timed sections as though they are highly compressed blind reviews. But it's an entirely different thing with entirely different goals and processes. Do confidence drills to start breaking the habit of wanting to achieve BR level comprehension under time.
Yeah, definitely fool proof. As far as what else to do, again, confidence drills. Below is the boilerplate I share with my students to explain exactly what I want out of confidence drills. You need to record these so that you can evaluate objectively. Pay close attention to whether you achieve each specific goal or not. For those who like statistics and want to think in terms of probabilities playing out over time, take a look at the alternate version on the second page! I really love the mathier version, but for most people, the simpler classification drill is going to accomplish the same thing better. I adapted all of this directly from an exercise of JY's.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Ram8XeijML7ULmX7OSSxfXe7EFqWQQkRJdn04tMb2w4/edit?usp=sharing
Hope this helps, and keep us posted as you begin closing that gap!
@"Cant Get Right" can this be adapted for untimed sections of LR?
@keets993 you can certainly take aspects of this and apply it to an untimed drill—I use the same system of marking questions no matter what I’m working on—but eventually efficient time management is the purpose of this drill, and the time restrictions are really important for that.