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Honest opinion
dramachef121
Free Trial Member
170 in July (6th take) and 2.99 GPA.
Current offer: 105k Fordham
Goals are BL. Should I take Fordham and run with it or reapply? I'm not a strong T-14 candidate with the # of takes and low GPA. I would take GULC, NW, or UVA but not sure I can get in with my stats. Not sure what to do.
Comments
I would take that money and run with it. Your GPA is lower than all of the 25ths and while your LSAT is very good, there are splitters like you who will have an even higher score who took the test fewer times. If you were to reapply, there's almost no chance of T14 and there's the very good possibility that you could lose the really good offer you have on the table.
What is more important is how much do you still have to pay?
If you applied late, reapply.
Really? I thought how many times you take doesn't really matter cause they only consider highest score
If you're planning to practice in NYC then Fordham gives you a really good shot at BL already. The other thing to consider with reapplying is the extra year of lost salary, though it sounds like you're leaning towards reapplying.
Just my two cents: I don't think the number of takes matters. I wouldn't factor that in.
It does and it doesn't. Top law schools generally don't care about one or even two retakes as long as they are both above 160. However, if you have to retake more than 2 times, it counts as a negative soft factor. While your ultimate score is a testament to work ethic and determination, admissions officers often see multiple takes as evidence of negative qualities as well.
First of all congrats Fordham is a great school and that’s an awesome scholarship!
I would fiddle around with myLSN and see what it could potentially look like if you got a 172...175 etc and really think about what you think you’re capable of in a retake. I personally haven’t looked into splitters at t14s so I’m not sure but I would imagine that in your situation you’d need to hit mid 170s to make a substantial difference. > @Ohnoeshalpme said:
Where are you getting this info? it’s hard for me to believe there’s any evidence/trends of admissions officers having opinions about retakes in the past year of having the retake limit removed. Also, why would it matter if someone went from ie a 159 to a 170 in their 2 takes? Why must they be above 160s? I don’t know anything about admissions officer’s opinions on this so just curious.
But specific to this issue, OP has already taken it 6 times so they’re already past the point of worrying about how adcomms view retakes.
I don't think taking the LSAT 6 times looks much different than taking it 7 times. Do you have a good strategy for writing addenda for both your GPA (external factors impacting it) and your retakes?
Anyway, don't underestimate the value of that scholarship! It is worth about $111,700 of loans after interest. Your life/standard of living after graduation would look very different with an extra $111,700 in loans than it would without. It also depends on what kind of job you get after you graduate. For example, I want to be a prosecutor. I'll basically make no money working for the government. It's fine. I'm not mad. If you get a six-figure job right out of school, you may choose to pay off $30,000 a year and be done with it pretty quickly. I would look at the employment stats for Fordham and see what you're realistically up against. Maybe contact someone in the alumni network and see what types of jobs people are getting. Alternatively, stalk people on LinkedIn and check out Fordham lawyers' first jobs.
@"surfy surf" OP shouldn't worry about it at this point but I was replying to Broccoli's question. The truth is that multiple takes do matter, most admissions officers will tell you that scores that fall significantly below their medians (150's or 140's) are considered negative soft factors. It's not that it has any huge impact, but don't expect them to disregard all takes completely. You can argue about how many takes are acceptable, but it stands to reason that an LSAT score that falls far below the median, even if replaced by a competitive one, will have some negative impact.
There are reasons other than USnews rankings that schools consider the LSAT to be such a huge part of the decision. It is the single biggest predictor of law school success and admissions officers know this. Historically, the average LSAT score has been used because it can give a more accurate representation of a student's potential than just the highest score on its own.
I'd be interested to hear @"David.Busis" take on re-taking a 7th time and whether 6 takes counts for much.
I think you are not a strong candidate for T-14 because of your GPA not because of the # of takes. I think your Fordham offer sounds amazing. I have a low GPA too and would run with it but that's just me - there are many factors to take into account. Is your dream GULC, NW or UVA? Someone suggested looking at LSN - that's a good idea. Its not scientific data but may help shape your decision. Also, how unhappy/happy would you be at Fordham and with a Fordham degree? I mean, if you are going there and hating it every day well then, don't go. No point in going to a school where you are going to be unhappy.
Lastly, I do believe Fordham will open doors for BL so I don't think that's an issue. I think at this point you need to decide what will be best for you in the long run. $105k is a really nice number. Hey, give it to me! Ha!
Hmmm... I would take the money and head over to Fordham in the next two weeks. Crush your 1L and 2L and target the whiteshoe firms in NYC.
@"Rigid Designator" I agree that multiple takes are a soft factor. If you've already racked up six, I'm not sure the marginal cost of a seventh is particularly high, but either number might be enough to raise eyebrows.
On the other hand, a good score is a good score. Now that admissions officers only have to bake in the highest LSAT score into their 509s, the upside of retaking is often higher than the downside if you think there's a not-insignificant chance of improving.