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Old Logic Games?

jenifferkjenifferk Member
in General 94 karma
Hi all!

I am crunching through the logic game bundle, and wondering if it is worth mastering a few of the strange/old questions that JY mentions we will no longer find on the new LSAT? I understand that I can sit, and probably reason / learn my way to the right answer, but I figure I'd rather spend 20-30 minutes on trying to cover ground (deeply) and gather more experience on different inferences / game setups.

I am thinking that it is more worth my time to crunch through and master the ones that are representative of the logic games we will find on the new LSAT.

Thoughts?
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Comments

  • Nilesh SNilesh S Alum Inactive ⭐
    3438 karma
    OK... back to this id... (for now) You should definitely go through them... as the recent LSATs have shown that nothing is beyond the scope of the exam... I think one of them even repeated an old game type a couple of exams back... @jdawg113 do you have any idea which exam and which type of game?
  • jdawg113jdawg113 Alum Inactive ⭐
    2654 karma
    not sure if its what your talking about but the Feb14 LSAT had a circle game in it
  • Nilesh SNilesh S Alum Inactive ⭐
    3438 karma
    Yeah the circle game...that was it.
  • emli1000emli1000 Alum Member Inactive ⭐
    3462 karma
    It is necessary I would say! I went through the entire bundle in two weeks. Ever since I've been -3 or less on LG sections.
  • emli1000emli1000 Alum Member Inactive ⭐
    3462 karma
    @jdawg113 a circular game? Wow. I actually thought those were easy and I was wondering why they stopped using them.
  • jdawg113jdawg113 Alum Inactive ⭐
    2654 karma
    yeah, and everyone is different, a lot of people find them tricky but theres plenty that have no problem with them
  • ddakjikingddakjiking Inactive ⭐
    2116 karma
    With just under 3 months left I would practice the old stuff too. I think LG has gotten trickier over the last couple PT's where some would say is reminiscent of the super old LG's.
  • DumbHollywoodActorDumbHollywoodActor Alum Inactive ⭐
    edited March 2015 7468 karma
    I just started the bundle, doing one LG prep test (4games )over one day. But I've also heard many say they crammed it all in like 2-3 weeks. I'd love to hear anyone's take: to cram or not to cram the logic bundle?
  • Nilesh SNilesh S Alum Inactive ⭐
    3438 karma
    @DumbHollywoodActor you can't really cram a game... but what you can do is work at it so hard that whenever you see a genetic twin, your mind goes into autopilot so to speak and you automatically start solving it as if the steps were second nature... for this yes you can take take all the games of the bundle and then solve them using the foolproof method and 3 weeks time should be enough if your focus is just games with LR and RC thrown in just so that you keep in touch with them and do not atrophy...
  • Allison MAllison M Alum Member Inactive Sage
    810 karma
    Totally totally totally do the old problems. Regardless of whether or not a weird question comes up on your LSAT, the old games really help develop your ability to think flexibly about game setup. Even on "normal" games, this is an advantage (IMO). Once you've foolproofed all of the old games, you'll be shocked by how easy the new games feel!
  • Nilesh SNilesh S Alum Inactive ⭐
    3438 karma
    It's actually not that much if you look at it... less than two game sets a day to perfect... but it can still be crazy tough.
  • emli1000emli1000 Alum Member Inactive ⭐
    3462 karma
    @DumbHollywoodActor I don't think I crammed any of the games in the bundle. It actually made it easier for me to finish them in about 2 weeks. Plus I would print 5 copies of every game. No matter if I made a 100% or if I got -4. After completing PT 1-35 there was in increase in my score. I've manage to get -3 or less on every LG section.
  • jenifferkjenifferk Member
    94 karma
    Wow, great advice - y'all are awesome!

    Personally, the circular setup isn't so much a problem for me... but I can understand that there is more good than bad with doing old weird logic games that deviate from the "common" LG.

    I like the idea that exposing myself to them will increase my flexibility with diagramming.

  • emli1000emli1000 Alum Member Inactive ⭐
    3462 karma
    Yes, plus once you're familiar with LG it's a wrap!
  • harrismeganharrismegan Member
    2074 karma
    I was wondering the same thing, as I'm going through it right now. For all the "common" games, I seem to do really great, but then there is always that 1 every section that is "unusual". I know he indicates on the video that "the newer LSATs are not likely to have a game like this" I still feel the need to do them.
  • Jonathan WangJonathan Wang Yearly Sage ⭐
    edited March 2015 6874 karma
    A huge chunk of the 'difficulty' on logic games is simply the LSAC throwing you a curveball and zagging when you expect them to zig. The value in doing old, "irrelevant" logic games comes from developing your approach and expanding your toolbox, not from learning the setup to that particular game. Not to mention that a game is only 'old and irrelevant' until it shows up again. There was a long break between circle games, but well, here we are.

    To do good on the LSAT, it is enough to just tackle the most commonly-seen setups, the ones people refer to as "representative". To do great on it, you have to know how to put the pieces together when the setup is unfamiliar. For example, nobody had ever seen a game like the timepiece game in 73; even the closest analogs weren't very close to the mark. So how did some people not miss any questions in that game? Because their mental flexibility and approach gave them the tools to solve a question that they had never seen before. Being able to scrape together a setup from an unfamiliar situation is a skill. Being able to figure out an unfamiliar game is a skill. They are skills that rely on your ability to rummage around in your toolbox and figure out the appropriate tools to use, because your explicit memory will not help you.

    You need to learn the 'common' game types cold. No question about that. If you haven't, I strongly suggest you ignore the 'odd' games completely until you've mastered the common ones. But you have to make sure you're learning them the right way - picking up the cues for when you're supposed to do something and understanding why, not just memorizing the setups.
  • Gz412326Gz412326 Alum Member
    92 karma
    When you say practice the "old" logic games - how are you defining old? What range of preptests? 20s? 1-10?
  • Nilesh SNilesh S Alum Inactive ⭐
    edited March 2015 3438 karma
    @Checkmate for purposes of this post games from PTs 1 to 35 or the 7sage LG bundle.
  • emli1000emli1000 Alum Member Inactive ⭐
    3462 karma
    @Checkmate From the LG Bundle.
  • DumbHollywoodActorDumbHollywoodActor Alum Inactive ⭐
    7468 karma
    Thanks, Everyone, for his or her input. I should add that I am devoting 1 logic game preptest of the LG Bundle per day because I am also doing a chapter of LSAT trainer per day. I liked the symmetrical elegance of it all: 35 chapters of LSAT Trainer with 35 LG PTs.

    But I was worried I might be missing out on some sort of pattern recognition thing by not cramming the LGs into 2-3 weeks. Any thoughts?
  • DumbHollywoodActorDumbHollywoodActor Alum Inactive ⭐
    7468 karma
    And how about this new font!

    Classy!
  • emli1000emli1000 Alum Member Inactive ⭐
    3462 karma
    @DumbHollywoodActor Not at all. As long as you get through them and become familiar with the patterns on LG you should be fine.
  • mpits001mpits001 Alum Member
    938 karma
    I love the way @"Jonathan Wang" said this. It's so true. No game is ever irrelevant because all the inferences that can be found and how they relate to another game. If you master all game types, then even new games or weird games should not be able to throw anyone off. This is why I love the emphasis 7Sage puts on doing a game 10 times until you know it in and out.
  • jenifferkjenifferk Member
    94 karma
    Truth, I definitely try to do a game set multiple times if I haven't mastered it yet.. but I have found that doing them twice, then waiting a day or two to check if I've learned how to gather the inferences quickly on my own.. doing them 5 times in a row, I've found that I stop paying attention to the process in which I make those inferences. This might seem obvious to most, but I had to realize it myself!
  • Nilesh SNilesh S Alum Inactive ⭐
    edited March 2015 3438 karma
    There's some truth to that... but when you force yourself to do the game... the process is also subconsciously cemented in your mind even though you may not think so... which is where the real gains of foolproofing are...
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