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1 Like
Retake for HYS?
MissChanandler
Alum Member Sage ⭐
Hi everyone,
Just like the title says, I’m on the fence about a retake. I took September and got a 169 and then got a 172 in November. My PT average over the last five PTs was 171 with a high score of 175. My gpa is 3.9. I’m not planning on applying til next cycle. Is it worth the time and stress to try to bump myself up the one point to Harvard and Yale’s medians?
Comments
If your goal is to go to one of HYS, and you're not an URM, yes. If you just want to humble brag about your GPA and LSAT, no.
If the rest of your application is together, I would apply this cycle with the 172 and then see whether you can defer (Harvard is fairly liberal about deferring if you commit; not sure about Yale).
If you don't get in then you should consider retaking.
These types of comments really aren't very helpful. OP has a difficult decision to make about a really tough score range to improve on. That decision could have enormous impact on their apps, education, career, and life. The implication of suggesting this is a humble brag is that the question is not an entirely legitimate one. It is.
@MissChanandler , that's a really tough call. That one extra point to put you at the median would be really nice. I'm sure you've plugged it into a calculator, and I imagine it moves the needle substantially. You have hit a very hard range to improve on though. Even if you do meaningfully bump your average, there's just no guarantees. If you do retake, do it in July when you'll be able to see your score before deciding to cancel or not. You then at least know your score won't be going down.
If it’s HYS or bust, you would be smart to retake. If you’re happy with T6 then a retake is a bad idea. I think that spending too much time devoted to this test can be dangerous, especially if we don’t see results.
As a side note, choosing HYS or bust is a bit neurotic in my opinion. There are so many spectacular law schools who would love to have you with those scores. The idea that these three schools are so superior is based solely on reputation and prestige. I recognize that these are currency in the legal market, but schools in the T6 all have that reputation.
You are clearly a highly motivated and brilliant individual. I recommend putting the LSAT behind you and devoting your intelligence to a new personal goal or project.
Best of luck to you, whatever you choose. And I guess my message for you is to spend some time honestly asking yourself why you want to go to HYS as opposed to other T6/14 schools and whether that is really worth (potentially) hundreds of thousands more of debt and another serious stint of LSAT prep.
I think you should retake if you're not gonna apply until next cycle. Like @"Cant Get Right" said, do the July test so you can cancel or whatnot if you majorly drop but since schools only take the highest score anyway I don't think it matters if you did score the same or lower. I personally made the decision to retake a 170 and made the jump to 178, which has broadened my scholarship and admission chances significantly (+fee waivers). However I am not HYS or bust, and my gpa is right below median at T14s so I think it made more sense to retake in my case. With a 3.9/172 you will see a lot more diminishing returns on score increases but I pulled some hypothetical LSN score ranges below. Looks like your HYS chances skyrocket but the other T14s are essentially locks for you either way. Good luck and I'm sure you'll be happy either way.
Assuming 172: https://mylsn.info/rorupb/
Assuming 174+: https://mylsn.info/abfx7v/
@10000019 that's a clever idea, I hadn't thought about deferring!
@"Cant Get Right" thank you for the thoughtful advice, especially about July. Your thread about it was great too!
@Ohnoeshalpme I think you're right about needing to know when to let the LSAT go. I'm not HYS or bust (ultimately I want to be a lawyer, regardless of which school I go to, and I would be happy somewhere else too), but I also want to give myself the best shot and have no regrets about what I put into my application.
@eRetaker that's a really impressive jump (and score in general haha)! Your point about diminishing returns is accurate I think and definitely something I'll keep in mind
I would definitely not retake a 172. In my mind, I don't think it's a question of whether or not it is worth the time. Regression to the mean is a real thing, and if you already scored above your average, it's more likely that you'd score lower than higher. I don't see why you'd put yourself in that position when you already have both an LSAT and a GPA that can get the job done. Anecdotally, I know a few people at Harvard who scored a 172 and one person at Yale so that score certainly doesn't preclude you from getting in there.
The only other thing I want to add is that I want to disagree with @eRetaker and I think an incorrect consensus that law schools are only looking at your top score; Yale, for instance, is definitely looking at all of your scores. Other top programs are as well.
All of that being said, I had completely forgotten that the July test can be cancelled after you see your score. I'd agree with @"Cant Get Right" about taking that especially if you are planning to apply next cycle anyway.
@MissChanandler congrats on your LSAT and GPA and also perseverance to study and retake the LSAT after an initial great score of 169 and also retake at 172. If you are an URM I think you have a great shot at HYS and don't need to retake, however if you are not a URM than no guarantees even with the great STATS so might consider a third retake if you are holding off for this cycle and can take the July 2019 LSAT with no risk if your score goes down as you can cancel . I agree with @"Cant Get Right" I think your question is legitimate and has value,not just for you but others who also might be pondering the same question(retakes in the low 170's). I myself don't have the exact same question, but also considering a retake as my initial score was171 in September and considering a retake in July to help boost my potential to get into a top law school. Congrats again. NO HUMBLE BRAG your GPA and LSAT is just the facts and your question and feedback on this thread is helpful to many.
Well it depends on what job you're after. If you're dead set on clerking for SCOTUS then attending a school outside those three isn't a smart choice.
@msk12345 I definitely wouldn't retake until/unless my PT average went up by a few points, but the concern about going down even by a point or two is definitely real. I was under the impression that while schools look at/think about all of your scores they don't average them and your highest score is ultimately the most important
@Lawschoolhopeful-4 Thank you!! People at work/school thought I was crazy for retaking the 169 haha. I'm not URM. I appreciate the feedback! It helps to talk to people in a similar position. Most people I know IRL have good intentions but aren't involved in any way with law school/law school applications so they aren't super helpful for bouncing around ideas
@msk12345 I use to think the same but Spivey and his employee (former Yale adcomm) addressed in on a LSAT FAQ. I attached the link below, and I think they explain it a lot better than I can.
https://www.reddit.com/r/LSAT/comments/98mc3o/its_crazy_to_think_how_important_this_test_is/e4hcujh/?context=3
@eRetaker wow! I suppose I stand corrected.
(edited)
@ChaimtheGreat yeah my plan since early on in my undergrad studies was to take a gap year before applying, but I wanted to get my LSAT done early
Lol my bad I didn't see where you specifically said you were applying next cycle lol. I'm embarrassed.
@ChaimtheGreat haha nah you're good