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US News Law School Ranking 2016

tsamvelyantsamvelyan Alum Member
in General 431 karma
So, the rankings for 2015-2016 came out today. California schools seem to be doing much better probably given the improving employment prospects, a huge consideration for US News Ranking. Also, kudos to UC Irvine for ranking so high given that this was their first time being ranked. Here's how Cali schools ranked.

Stanford 2(tie (+1))
Berkeley 8(tie (+1)) - Applied
UCLA 16 (-)
USC 20(-) - Applied
Irvine 30 (NR) - Applied
Davis 31(+5)
Pepperdine 52 (+2) - Applied
Hastings 59 (-5) - Applied
Loyola 75 (+12) - Applied.
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Comments

  • ddakjikingddakjiking Inactive ⭐
    2116 karma
    Sounds like you're a fellow Californian! Good luck with your cycle!
  • tsamvelyantsamvelyan Alum Member
    431 karma
    Yep :) Thanks @ddakjiking you too!!
  • ddakjikingddakjiking Inactive ⭐
    2116 karma
    @tsamvelyan I'll be applying next cycle. Hopefully my June score will be good enough. Just out of curiosity, why didn't you apply to Davis? It appears like UCI and UCD are currently peer(ish) schools.
  • tsamvelyantsamvelyan Alum Member
    431 karma
    @ddakiking....I asked myself the same question this morning and filled out the application hahaha. So, we'll see what happens. Gotta love the Cali competition: UCLA #16 vs USC #20; Irvine #30 vs Davis #31; Pepperdine 52 vs. Hastings #59.
  • emli1000emli1000 Alum Member Inactive ⭐
    3462 karma
    Good luck!
  • ddakjikingddakjiking Inactive ⭐
    2116 karma
    @tsamvelyan haha good for you! It now seems like there's a couple tiers within CA:
    1: Stanford/Berkeley
    2: UCLA/USC
    3: UCI/UCD
    4: Pepperdine/UC Hastings/Loyola/U San Diego
    5: Chapman/Santa Clara/Southwestern/rest

    Despite Loyola and USD having a rank 10+ away from Pepperdine/Hastings, their employment data as well as admission medians via LST are all pretty comparable so that's why I lumped all of them together.
  • Jonathan WangJonathan Wang Yearly Sage ⭐
    6869 karma
    I'm a little surprised that Irvine ranked ahead of Davis straight out of the gate, but in hindsight I guess Chemerinsky's target really was UCLA all along. Really a great story there, they did all the right things to attract the student body they wanted and an excellent faculty on top of that.
  • blah170blahblah170blah Alum Inactive ⭐
    3545 karma
    Yes, I was informed of something similar. I know the school has had problem with faculty retention but the school is overall wonderful. They really did a fantastic job of recruiting incredibly bright students and faculty members. I really do hope they can break into the Top 20s as they originally envisioned.
  • Nilesh SNilesh S Alum Inactive ⭐
    edited March 2015 3438 karma
    @"Jonathan Wang" ...do you think they'll make it to the top 20 as was their goal anytime soon??? I think that school has a ton going for it but the USNWR rankings have a degree of rigidity. I REALLY think that school is awesome.
  • ddakjikingddakjiking Inactive ⭐
    edited March 2015 2116 karma
    As long as they can keep up their employment rate (biglaw+fed clerkship) without sacrificing lsat/gpa medians, it's possible they could approach the Top 20's. With only two years' worth of employment data and the latter being not as good as the original class, I'm interested to see the upcoming 2014 data.

    http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/irvine/trends/2013/

  • blah170blahblah170blah Alum Inactive ⭐
    3545 karma
    @"Nilesh S" (I know I'm not Jonathan) I think them breaking into the twenties is really going to depend on how well the most recent graduating classes perform over time and how well they can maintain and attract faculty members. I know over the years there's been an exodus of professors leaving the school and going elsewhere, which will affect how high their ratings can get.

    I was also told that the vision for UCI was supposed to be quite radical compared to existing law schools but that vision hasn't been realized. That vision, coupled with great faculty and student body, was what led people to believe they could break into the Top 20 in their first year. If they can realize the vision, maybe they can break into the Top 20 but it's unclear if that will happen.
  • Jonathan WangJonathan Wang Yearly Sage ⭐
    edited March 2015 6869 karma
    I think it'll be really hard to do. I consider Austin, Vandy, and UCLA to be mortal locks for the top 20, and I'd actually be pretty shocked to see Emory drop out too. So that leaves them having to beat out at least three of GW, USC, Minnesota, and WashU. GW and USC have long histories in the 17-20 range, and WashU and Minnesota basically knock on the door every year too, so getting multiples of those schools out and keeping them out is definitely no small task. It's not a knock on that school so much as the fact that leapfrogging that many other contenders is a feat in and of itself.

    That's like asking whether Duke could ever break into the top 5. I mean, Duke is a fantastic school, but having to leapfrog NYU Penn and Chicago, with HYS+Columbia as basically locks for 1-4, is really really hard. Even if one of those schools has a 'down' year job-wise or bar pass-wise, it's hard to imagine that some circumstance would happen when all of those schools would simultaneously have those issues, while at the same time Duke doesn't get affected at all.
  • Nilesh SNilesh S Alum Inactive ⭐
    3438 karma
    @blah170blah I certainly hope that happens... that is an awesome school from what I've heard... and some students there are my friends... Yeah the faculty exodus problem is there... I think they've kept some good core faq members there... but yes with people like Rachel Moran leaving for UCLA and all, it has been tough.
  • blah170blahblah170blah Alum Inactive ⭐
    3545 karma
    Yes, they still have very accomplished faculty members, and of course, Chemerinsky is still their dean.
  • jdawg113jdawg113 Alum Inactive ⭐
    2654 karma
    Yeah the 20 below range is where you're reaching the top so going from 30->20 is much harder than from unranked->30 (though of course still very impressive) I think getting into the 20's is going to take some time creeping forward using their jump as best they can. I think they'll be plenty of people who apply and decide to matriculate they just need to be smart about how they adapt to their new position
  • tsamvelyantsamvelyan Alum Member
    431 karma
    To be honest, I never believed that UCI would debut in top 20. I was expecting mid 30's and coming in at #30 is very respectable. However, I am highly doubtful they will rank better than 22-25 in the future. We must remember that UCI has a much smaller class than all other law schools, and the way they recruited those students was through heavy scholarships. The job market in California, the main hub for the students for UCI graduates is not the greatest. Pair that with the fact that the greater Los Angeles/Orange County area employs graduates from UCLA and USC and in some cases Loyola and Pepperdine grads have the upper hand thanks to alumni networks. So, once they have a full class, their employment score will most likely suffer, so will LSAT/GPA ratio. But the future will tell.
  • ddakjikingddakjiking Inactive ⭐
    2116 karma
    As long UCI doesn't go the way of UC Hastings, I can see them in their current placement (between UCLA/USC and Pepperdine/Loyola). UC Hasting used to be a pretty good before they started dropping their mediums so they can grow their class.
  • msoliviajmsoliviaj Alum Member
    53 karma
    Good Luck!
  • Marie4lawschoolMarie4lawschool Alum Member
    359 karma
    I've applied to a bunch of the same Californian schools too! I'm admitted to UC Irvine, UC Hastings, and Chapman, so far, and am waiting on others (as well as a few favorites in DC and VA). I prefer SoCal to North, so will likely pull out of UC Hastings. As I intend to go into public interest law, I'm wondering how critical law school ranking is for me -- as background, I'm 57 and have lots of work experience and various degrees (MD PhD MSEd). Any thoughts? Full scholarship offers are attracting me :) but I don't want to be short-sighted.
  • ddakjikingddakjiking Inactive ⭐
    2116 karma
    @Marie4lawschool Hi. In my opinion, with your age and legal goals, I would go to a school for the cheapest price. Will you have some savings to cover tuition or will you be taking out loans?
  • blah170blahblah170blah Alum Inactive ⭐
    3545 karma
    @Marie4lawschool Public interest jobs are equally (if not more) competitive than firm jobs. If you choose to go the full tuition but lower ranked route, it's vital that your MD/PhD/MSEd background is related to whichever interest org you want to work in and that you kick ass in school. For public interest jobs, your background is as important as your grades (it looks like you'd be in good shape for public health).
  • Nilesh SNilesh S Alum Inactive ⭐
    3438 karma
    @Marie4lawschool UCI... totally... especially for public interest and definitely if they are offering generous aid.
  • tsamvelyantsamvelyan Alum Member
    431 karma
    @Marie4lawschool - I've spoken with many law school graduates and they almost all say the same thing: it is always preferable to go to the highest ranking school vs lower ranking with scholarship. This of course applies to upper 1st tier schools. So, let's say you get sticker price offer from Georgetown #14 and you get a 30K yearly offer from Hastings, Georgetown is the better option for you, mainly because of job prospects and the fact that a lot of students lose their scholarship. The other day I was looking at Loyola, and 49% of their entering class had lost their scholarship for 2L.
  • Jonathan WangJonathan Wang Yearly Sage ⭐
    edited March 2015 6869 karma
    It depends on each school's grading curve and what restrictions they put on your scholarship. If they only require you to stay in the top 90%, then you're probably fine. If it's top 50%, that's really iffy. You might think it's no big deal to stay in the top half because you've always been a good student, but literally every other person in your law school class is the same way. No matter where you go to school, every person has similar academic credentials, and SOMEONE is going to have to finish last in their class (this sucks a lot when you go to Columbia and your self esteem craters in a sea of B+s, even though you know the folks beating you out for the A-s/As are utterly brilliant).

    This is how lower-ranked law schools trap students into paying them for 2L and 3L - most people, even after losing their scholarships, will still want to finish law school. I think Golden Gate Law School out in SF had an article written about them years ago about this and about them losing their accredited status due to low bar pass rates...I really should go dig that up again.
  • Jonathan WangJonathan Wang Yearly Sage ⭐
    6869 karma
    PS: Don't go to Golden Gate Law School.
  • NYC12345NYC12345 Alum Inactive Sage
    1654 karma
    As @"Jonathan Wang" pointed out, it is definitely advisable to research the statistics to see how many of those who were initially provided a scholarship actually maintained it. Also note, according to my independent research, most of the top schools (T14 and most schools down to T40) do not have stipulations on scholarships, and even some schools that do have stipulations only put stipulations in place for certain candidates (if your stats are really good, then you might not have any stipulations on the scholarship offered).
  • Nilesh SNilesh S Alum Inactive ⭐
    3438 karma
    Yeah another tricky school with schols is Cardozo... NOTORIOUS for this kinda stuff from what I hear... and with a school like that... you know that if you lose the schol, chances are that getting a job is iffy too...
  • Marie4lawschoolMarie4lawschool Alum Member
    359 karma
    Thanks for all your comments! I'll give them serious consideration in weighing up my final choice once I hear the outcome of all my applications. @ddakjiking Yes, I have the funds to cover the full cost of law school, but of course if I don't have to spend this, that would be great! I'll see how the offers pan out. Thank you!!
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