If you see two Group 4 Logical Indicators in one sentence

Comments

• jasminesade Alum Member

  March 2019 249 karma

  Hi! If you see two group 4 indicators, in the case you illustrated we have "cannot" and "not" then it would be translated as /S then /K and the contrapositive K then S. Also, side note: it wouldn't really make sense to say if you can swim then you are a Koala bear. That would mean that the only things that can swim are Koala bears and the statement says that if you cannot swim then you are not a Koala bear, that doesn't mean when there's a double negative that it becomes completely a positive statement.

  But yes. Here is an example of a group 3 & 4 in the same sentence.
  "No X can be present without Y" would be diagrammed as : X then Y, if /Y then /X
• 1 Like

  Butterflies and Lady Birds Alum Member

  March 2019 143 karma

  Thanks, could you please explain how you got to /S then /K.

  I thought when we have a group indicator, it is not treated as a negative so in the sentence-
  "If you cannot swim you are not a Koala." It would be S for swim, then take cannot as a group 4 indicator and negate necessary - which is- not Koala - thus making it to K. So the end result would be S then K no? Thanks
• KeepCalm Alum Member

  March 2019 807 karma

  I read a post in the past that is very similar to your question, here is the link

  https://7sage.com/discussion/#/discussion/10809/translating-a-sentence-with-2-group-4-indicators

  --
  I do not know exactly what the rule of thumb is, but in a situation where there are two Group 4 indicators in one sentence, I would just diagram them in the order that I read them:

  "If you cannot swim you are not a Koala Bear."

  (Lawgic): /S → /K

  (Contrapositive): K → S

  I do this because when there are two Group 4 indicators in one sentence, the rule to "pick either idea" does not effectively apply so I just focus on the order that the conditional statement is written: negating the sufficient condition followed by negating the necessary condition. I know this may seem overwhelming but please do not hesitate to let me know if this does not make sense!
• jasminesade Alum Member

  March 2019 249 karma

  @Maka_Ogn said:
  Thanks, could you please explain how you got to /S then /K.

  I thought when we have a group indicator, it is not treated as a negative so in the sentence-
  "If you cannot swim you are not a Koala." It would be S for swim, then take cannot as a group 4 indicator and negate necessary - which is- not Koala - thus making it to K. So the end result would be S then K no? Thanks

  I think with practice and lots of diagramming it becomes intuitive and so I can't really explain it in technical terms, however, the way I got to K then S is by just taking the elements as they are and not applying the negate-necessary rule in this instance because if you do use the rule, it does not make sense. If S then K means that every thing that swims is a Koala, swimming is not sufficient but necessary for being a Koala bear.

  So back to just taking the elements as they are, this is how I did it:
  "If you cannot swim you are not a Koala."
  cannot swim = /S and not a Koala =/K
  /S then /K
  contrapositive is K then S
• 1 Like

  Butterflies and Lady Birds Alum Member

  March 2019 143 karma

  Got it thank you for following up and explaining I truly appreciate it