Game of Thrones S06E07 - LSAT Lessons [Spoilers]

J.Y. PingJ.Y. Ping Administrator Instructor
edited May 2021 in General 14008 karma
Like many of you, I watch Game of Thrones. While watching the latest episode, I realized the characters make many arguments. So, I thought it would be fun to use some of their dialogue as mini LSAT lessons.

If you don't watch Game of Thrones or aren't caught up, turn away for many spoilers lie ahead.

Scene 1 - Jon Snow wields a cool conditional chain
image
Jon Snow: "I need you with me if we're going to beat them, and we need to beat them if you're going to survive."
survive → beat them → you with me
Jon uses "need" to indicate necessity along with "if" to indicate sufficiency. Though he states only his major premise without giving the full argument, he correctly assumes that everyone wants to "survive" which would triggers the conditional chain allowing everyone to draw the conclusion that the Free Folk ought to stick with Jon Snow.

Scene 2 - Tormund's like "Hey Snow, let me see that cool conditional chain."
image
Quickly following Jon's argument, Tormund wants to play with the conditional chain also. Earlier in the dialogue he mentions that Jon died for the Free Folk so "do the same" is referencing that.

Tormund: "If we are not willing to do the same for him, we're cowards. And if that's what we are, we deserve to be the last of the Free Folk."
not willing to die for Jon → cowards → deserve to be last of the Free Folk
Like Jon, Tormund also states only his major premise. He also correctly assumes that none of the Free Folk wants to be the last of the Free Folk nor do they want to be labeled cowards. Hence, by failing either of the necessary conditions, we can contrapose and arrive at the conclusion that the Free Folk "are willing to die for Jon". In context, this means join Jon in war to take back Winterfell from the Boltons.

Scene 3 - Cersei is not half as bright
image

I find this scene really funny. Olenna says to Cersei, "If you're half as bright as you think you are, you'll find a way out of here, too." Without missing a beat, Cersei replies "Never." Like, she just accepts Olenna's insulting premise and plays along. I almost feel bad for her.

Let's look at this in lawgic.
Olenna: Cersei is 50% as smart as Cersei thinks she is → leave
Cersei: not leaving
Conclusion: Cersei's not very bright
Scene 4 - Blackfish understands the inclusive or
image
In this scene, one of the Frey idiots threatens Blackfish and says "Yield the castle or I cut his throat."

Blackfish, who clearly understands the inclusive or, thinks to himself:
not yield castle → nephew's throat cut
But I remember from this 7Sage lesson that if I yield the castle, that Frey idiot might cut my nephew's throat anyway. I'm gonna call him out on his shit bluff.

Scene 5 - Jamie with a strong contrapose
image
This was probably my favorite scene from the episode.

Right before this scene, Jamie simultaneously insults and warns the Frey idiot that "only a fool makes threats he's not prepared to carry out."
makes threats he's not prepared to carry out → fool
Since Frey threatened Blackfish earlier but didn't carry it out, Jamie effectively called him a fool. There's the insult. But Jamie is also warning Frey because we can assume that Jamie does not think himself a fool and hence conclude that Jamie makes threats he is prepared to carry out. Jamie proceeds to make the following threat: "Now let's say I threatened to hit you unless you shut your mouth, but you kept talking. What do you think I'd do?"
not shut your dirty Frey mouth → Jamie hits you
And of course, like the idiot he is, the Frey keeps talking.

Scene 6 - Jamie is fond of unless
image
Jamie uses "unless" again in this scene, "Have him bathed and fed. Unless you'd like to take his place."
don't want to take his place → bathe and feed him
Jamie assumes that the idiot Frey does not want to take the prisoner's place and therefore will bathe and feed him. This time they take Jamie's threat seriously.

Scene 7 - Davos also knows how to contrapose a conditional chain too
image
Davos strings together a conditional argument just like Jon and Tormund did at the beginning of the episode.

Davos: "As long as the Boltons hold Winterfell, the North is divided. And a divided North won't stand a chance against the Night King."
Boltons hold Winterfell → North divided → no chance against Night King
Davos correctly assumes that Lady Lyanna Mormont wants to stand a chance against the Night King and so, contraposing back, will arrive at the conclusion that she should help them kick the Boltons out of Winterfell.

Comments

  • jennilynn89jennilynn89 Alum Member
    822 karma
    OMG this is the best thing ever!!! Thank you, J.Y.!!!
  • Cant Get RightCant Get Right Yearly + Live Member Sage 🍌 7Sage Tutor
    27821 karma
    Nice! I missed some of these but I started laughing at myself during the Jon/Tormund and the Jamie/Frey scenes.
  • Nanchito-1-1Nanchito-1-1 Yearly Member
    1762 karma
    Sansa Bolton or Lannister??
  • DumbHollywoodActorDumbHollywoodActor Alum Inactive ⭐
    7468 karma
    I was thinking more or less the same thing whenI was watching this episode. I even mentioned to my wife that everybody was pretty logic-happy this episode, especially in the Jon-Wildling scene.
  • LARamsNationLARamsNation Member
    edited June 2016 592 karma
    LOL... 100% by far and away the best post I've ever read on here. Felt like last week was the best episode of the season... The Jamie contrapose was epic. Though couldn't someone, say Khaleesi, object to Davos' chain of reasoning in lieu of being the Dragon Queen armed with a Dothraki Army? Hypothetically, couldn't one side of the divided north team up with Dany to take on the Night King... - rendering Davos' argument to rest on a sufficient, but not necessary assumption? In any case.. #valarmorghulis.
  • Cant Get RightCant Get Right Yearly + Live Member Sage 🍌 7Sage Tutor
    27821 karma
    Yeah, when Dany rolls in to Westeros, every premise of every argument is going to change.
  • souman11souman11 Alum Member
    72 karma
    If John Snow kills Ramsey Bolton, the Starks will rule Winterfell!

    JKR--->SW!

    If Reek drinks beer, he will be Theon Greyjoy!

    RDB--->TG!

    This thread has made my day XD !
  • stepharizonastepharizona Alum Member
    edited June 2016 3197 karma
    I love this @"J.Y. Ping" because I can official say that GOT is now a part of my study plans and I will have no guilt about watching the remaining episodes :)
  • AlejandroAlejandro Member Inactive ⭐
    2424 karma
    this is why I love 7Sage
  • dcdcdcdcdcdcdcdcdcdc Alum Member
    382 karma
    This is excellent. Thank you so much!
  • WaldojamWaldojam Alum Member
    9 karma
    Haha, awesome!
  • Cant Get RightCant Get Right Yearly + Live Member Sage 🍌 7Sage Tutor
    27821 karma
    @stepharizona said:
    I love this @"J.Y. Incarnate"
    I’m surprised I’ve never seen this slip up before, haha.
  • stepharizonastepharizona Alum Member
    edited June 2016 3197 karma
    LOL I was in a hurry and laughed when I saw it, didn't realize I clicked on it too haha @"Cant Get Right" fixed :)
  • Cant Get RightCant Get Right Yearly + Live Member Sage 🍌 7Sage Tutor
    27821 karma
    Yeah @stepharizona , they’ve almost gotten me several times before. If they’d gone with something more subtle like @JY Ping it’d’ve gotten real confusing!
  • shmhf666shmhf666 Free Trial Member
    10 karma
    Does anyone know who are these people that write LSAT? Are they former lawyers?I am really curious about the people who can write such a test.
  • mudiversmudivers Alum Member
    89 karma
    180 post.
  • em_mickdeeem_mickdee Alum Member
    8 karma
    This is the best.
  • Not Ralph NaderNot Ralph Nader Alum Member Inactive Sage Inactive ⭐
    2098 karma
    I was watching the episode and suddenly asked myself, did I just chain the conditional logic up!!
    tnx @"J.Y. Ping" for helping me to got my basic logic down :)
  • ldeblakerldeblaker Alum Member
    9 karma

    Great example of logic

  • qiananze94qiananze94 Member
    3 karma

    Interesting!

  • Habeas PorpoiseHabeas Porpoise Alum Member Sage
    1866 karma

    I don't even watch GOT but this is hilarious!

  • ShrilarauneShrilaraune Alum Member
    169 karma

    Quick Question! With the Cersei v. Olenna scene, the logic confirms that Cersei is not half as smart as she thinks she is, but that doesn't necessarily preclude her being more than half as smart, does it? Just that she's not half or lower?

  • AudaciousRedAudaciousRed Alum Member
    edited October 2018 2689 karma

    @"Chloe Nwangwu" said:
    Quick Question! With the Cersei v. Olenna scene, the logic confirms that Cersei is not half as smart as she thinks she is, but that doesn't necessarily preclude her being more than half as smart, does it? Just that she's not half or lower?

    I think with this, we have to take the context of the phrase into mind. When someone says "You aren't half as smart as you think you are", they're meaning "You aren't EVEN as half as smart as you think you are." But if we're just looking at the words as they exist.. you could make that assumption that she just isn't half, and could be more or less, I suppose. My gut says that if you aren't half as smart, you can't be MORE than half as smart. Sorta like a glass of milk. You can't be over half if you don't even contain half. But my understanding of the context may be impacting my view.
    Edit: My bad. The phrase was "If you are half as bright as you think you are".

  • ShrilarauneShrilaraune Alum Member
    169 karma

    @AudaciousRed Thank you!

  • simranknsimrankn Alum Member
    11 karma

    I agree with @AudaciousRed.

    Every time I read a stimulus on the LSAT, I try to adhere to the idea that I must take all the facts the LSAT provides at face value (i.e. outside of the context of the real world) and focus rather on the logical structure than the legitimacy of the facts irl. However, I'm not sure where idioms fall into this context. Are we supposed to interpret them literally? I know this is GOT so the LSAT might not rely on idioms as much, but in this case for example, we could assume that cersei could be more than half as bright as she thinks she is or less, the argument does not specify. But a reasonable person would assume that Olenna is not implying the former.

    I try to think of it this way:

    In LSAT logic, the negation of "hot" is not "cold" but "/hot"... similarly, I interpreted it as:

    Olenna: Cersei is 50% as smart as Cersei thinks she is → leave
    Cersei: /leaving
    Conclusion: Cersei is /50% as smart as she thinks she is. (whether it is more or less, we do not know)

    Am I thinking to much into this? #help

  • akistotleakistotle Member 🍌🍌
    edited May 2019 9372 karma

    Olenna is insulting Cersei here so I think your interpretation is correct!

    @"J.Y. Ping" said:
    Scene 5 - Jamie with a strong contrapose

    I'm sorry for being a complete nerd about this, but it's Jaime Lannister, not Jamie.

  • PrincessPrincess Alum Member
    821 karma

    This upsets me because I don't watch this show and I wish I did, so I could understand this! :disappointed:

  • MJandpippinMJandpippin Alum Member
    13 karma

    Im here a day after the show finale aired! Who else thinks John deserved better than what he got? Will there be an "Arya Sails West" spinoff? RIP to many :neutral: :(

  • gghughlettgghughlett Alum Member
    3 karma

    2 season later Lady Lyanna Mormont gets crushed by a Giant White Walker

  • Help2222Help2222 Member
    240 karma

    I like the logic exercise, but I have not watched GOT.

  • MambaMentality93MambaMentality93 Live Member
    503 karma

    Absolutely LOVE THIS!!!

  • grumpykittengrumpykitten Core Member
    4 karma

    Would love it EVEN MORE if there was an "e" in "bath and feed"...

  • 11 karma

    son of a bitch, im in!

  • LSWkndWrrior-1LSWkndWrrior-1 Core Member
    35 karma

    D&D are terrible writers. The GoT book content stopped after season 6. Therefore, Season 7 and 8 were terrible.

  • ChloexylChloexyl Member
    4 karma

    That's so logical. (Leaving this comment is to see what my tail that behind the nickname is, i am curious

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