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20 recent PTs 3x's or 60 PTs once

7sagelsatstudent1807sagelsatstudent180 Alum Member
in General 932 karma
Which study method is better if you have enough time to take and BR 60 LSAT PTs... Take the 20 most recent PTs 3x's (56-75) or 60 PTs (16-75) once... Please explain your decision... I actually am on pace to accomplish 20 x 3...
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  • jyang72jyang72 Alum Member
    844 karma
    A person who got 180 did all the PT 3 times at his time. He also mentioned that doing all the PTs that are after 50s 3 times. @7sagelsatstudent180 , I think I am looking for 20X3.
  • bluejaysbluejays Alum Member
    42 karma
    I am on pace to do 20x3. I just did PT 59 today. I will basically do a PT every other day and BR on days off.
  • c.janson35c.janson35 Free Trial Inactive Sage Inactive ⭐
    2398 karma
    Pretty sure you should take new tests instead of the same tests over and over. Not sure why you would want to take tests for a third time when you could take a test you haven't seen before. Not only will you remember the questions by the third time, but you are also giving up 4000 new questions that you can learn from. Also, by the third time those tests are going to be reallyyy boring.
  • c.janson35c.janson35 Free Trial Inactive Sage Inactive ⭐
    2398 karma
    Also, the fact that one person did 20 tests 3 times and got a 180 doesn't mean that it's a good idea. I'm sure there's some people out there that got a 180 without ever studying for the test, but I wouldn't recommend that either.
  • bluejaysbluejays Alum Member
    42 karma
    i meant i am on pace to do 3 (each being a new test) per week
  • PacificoPacifico Alum Inactive ⭐
    8021 karma
    I think doing 40 once and half of those again is a better approach. You can do 36-75 and then do the back half of those over again. You'll get so little value out of pre-36 as full PTs that it just isn't worth it in my opinion. Also, just because you can do something doesn't mean you should. I think just 36-75 with excellent BR will do just about as much for you as 36-75 plus 56-75 again will. You sound like a great candidate for burnout so I'd pump the brakes a bit and make sure you're getting enough rest/exercise/time away from LSAT to really let everything sink in and develop.
  • emli1000emli1000 Alum Member Inactive ⭐
    3462 karma
    I'm curious to know if you did any of the problem sets in the course? Or did you do some of them and immediately jumped on PTs as soon as you finished the course?
  • 7sagelsatstudent1807sagelsatstudent180 Alum Member
    932 karma
    I completed the full course... I have the ultimate package and did darn near every problem before starting PTs
  • GSU HopefulGSU Hopeful Core ⭐
    1644 karma
    Due to the time factor, am I correct in assuming that one wouldn't BR as thoroughly on a retake and he/she would on a frest PT?
  • NYC12345NYC12345 Alum Inactive Sage
    1654 karma
    @7sagelsatstudent180
    @Pacifico
    @c.janson35
    I would definitely complete as many new PTs as possible and thoroughly BR each and every question afterwards. It is a good idea to retake the newer exams if time permits. But completing 20 PTs three times seems silly to me. You will remember some questions off of the exam, especially considering there are only 8 and a half weeks left. If the exam was 6 months away, then you could take the exam every two months with the slight possibility of not recognizing any questions.
  • nicole.hopkinsnicole.hopkins Inactive Sage Inactive ⭐
    7965 karma
    @c.janson35 said:
    I'm sure there's some people out there that got a 180 without ever studying for the test, but I wouldn't recommend that either.
    This tho
  • nicole.hopkinsnicole.hopkins Inactive Sage Inactive ⭐
    7965 karma
    @Pacifico said:
    I think just 36-75 with excellent BR will do just about as much for you as 36-75 plus 56-75 again will. You sound like a great candidate for burnout so I'd pump the brakes a bit and make sure you're getting enough rest/exercise/time away from LSAT to really let everything sink in and develop.
    Yeah ... I will have basically done 36-75, with about half of those being retakes, and about a quarter—third of them being triple-takes. I'm seeing diminishing returns and have had to put the brakes on (per @c.janson35 and others' advice, I'm planning a 2 week LSAT cold turkey break before the final stretch, starting August 15th). I'm just glad I figured out what I need to do NOW as opposed to, you know, 2 weeks before the test when it's no longer possible to properly heal the burnout.
  • 7sagelsatstudent1807sagelsatstudent180 Alum Member
    edited August 2015 932 karma
    I'm closer to @nicole.hopkins study method at this point, I just have retaken the most recent tests more and taken less 30's tests
  • SLMcK2015SLMcK2015 Alum Member
    28 karma
    @Pacifico said:
    You'll get so little value out of pre-36 as full PTs that it just isn't worth it in my opinion.
    @Pacifico, I'm just curious why pre-36 tests aren't that valuable to take as full PTs. Is it just that they don't have comparative reading in RC? or is there something else that is a more significant difference?
  • PacificoPacifico Alum Inactive ⭐
    8021 karma
    There is an incremental shift from 1-75 that has changed many things about the test. The mid to late 30s are the general consensus across most prep companies and test takers as to where that shift is pronounced enough to abandon using the earlier ones for PTs. Some think the tests got harder, others think it got easier, but that is all relative to one's particular skill level and section preference. Personally I think comparative passages are easier than regular ones so I like the more recent RC. I find the early tests use much more convoluted language than the newer ones, which is what makes the early tests difficult, while the newer ones it seems to be the actual logic that is more difficult. Every other early PT has an off the wall game in a way that most post 35 PTs don't, though there is some indication of an occasional return to this phenomenon. And since there are only 75 PTs and a handful of others, ultimately you have to learn the test using some, and practice it using others. 1-35 are similar enough to learn the test, and 36+ are close enough to today's test in most respects that it just makes sense to do it that way.

    As an aside, if you want to see some nonsense that used to happen on the LSAT, take a look here: http://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/ED469242.pdf

    Just be glad you didn't have to take those tests.
  • nicole.hopkinsnicole.hopkins Inactive Sage Inactive ⭐
    7965 karma
    @180isthegoal said:
    I just did PT 59 today.
    Then you should join us tomorrow at 8pm ET for BR group on this very PT!
  • NYC12345NYC12345 Alum Inactive Sage
    1654 karma
    While there have been subtle changes in the exam, I have found the exams very similar. I am not someone who completed 36+ and took two exams in the 20s. Rather, I have completed 1-62 and A,B and C (plus 3 Indian LSATs). Other than the introduction of the comparative reading passage in RC, which is not more difficult (it's easier if anything) than conventional passages, the exam tests the same concepts and skills. The LR on recent exams is a lot "cleaner" and easier to read, but I typically get the same amount of questions wrong on each exam, which leads me to believe that older exams are reliable indicators of LSAT performance on recent exams. I know there are people out there with much different experiences, but I am a firm believer that all of these "drastic changes" are simply propagated myths.
  • nicole.hopkinsnicole.hopkins Inactive Sage Inactive ⭐
    7965 karma
    @alexandergreene93 said:
    I know there are people out there with much different experiences, but I am a firm believer that all of these "drastic changes" are simply propagated myths.
    It will be interesting to see if you maintain this position after taking 65-75!
  • NYC12345NYC12345 Alum Inactive Sage
    1654 karma
    @nicole.hopkins
    I guess we shall see.
  • NYC12345NYC12345 Alum Inactive Sage
    1654 karma
    @nicole.hopkins I'm taking PT 70 tomorrow. I'll post my evaluation on here after BR.
  • nicole.hopkinsnicole.hopkins Inactive Sage Inactive ⭐
    7965 karma
    @alexandergreene93 said:
    I'm taking PT 70 tomorrow.
    Let me know what you think following 72 :)
  • gs556gs556 Member Inactive Sage
    568 karma
    I never understood the allure of a re-take. A proper BR should be enough in my opinion. Once you've practiced/learned what you needed from a PT, move on to the next one.
  • nicole.hopkinsnicole.hopkins Inactive Sage Inactive ⭐
    edited August 2015 7965 karma
    @gs556 said:
    Once you've practiced/learned what you needed from a PT, move on to the next one.
    For those of us who have been prepping over a year (or PT'ing for a good long time), it's necessary to repeat some materials in order to fine tune our habits and keep our skills fresh. It's far from an uncommon practice, and it has nothing to do with "allure." And, sometimes we miss questions for different reasons on a retake. That means we have more opportunities to learn.

    I see utterly no benefit to the community or to individuals in dismissing such a practice.
  • PacificoPacifico Alum Inactive ⭐
    8021 karma
    I never understood the allure of studying for anything, but that doesn't mean it's not helpful and often needed in many cases. I don't prep for the LSAT because I'm seduced by the curriculum or other prep materials, I just need to accomplish a goal and use different tools to get myself there. If you did PTs for less than six months at a slow pace then obviously you wouldn't ever need to retake, but for some it is eventually the only option out there. Retaking a PT is still better than taking one of those stupid, fake Princeton Review ones.
  • nicole.hopkinsnicole.hopkins Inactive Sage Inactive ⭐
    7965 karma
    Hear, hear @Pacifico ... The Dude has spoken.
  • gs556gs556 Member Inactive Sage
    edited August 2015 568 karma
    @nicole.hopkins said:
    I see utterly no benefit to the community or to individuals in dismissing such a practice.

    Relax. Personally, I do not think the practice is useful, and the community benefits from different perspectives (yours and mine). For example, people on prep timelines under a year, such as I was, may understand that retakes are not necessary for scoring 170+ if PTs and BRs are done correctly.
  • gs556gs556 Member Inactive Sage
    568 karma
    And the reason I discourage re-rakes is because I feel that they inflate your score and provide a false sense of security. I would only use them if it was my only option. I am not just saying these things to be rude.
  • PacificoPacifico Alum Inactive ⭐
    8021 karma
    People don't take retakes for the confidence boost of a high score, they do it to reinforce their reasoning/logic skills. Anyone who thinks their retake score is viable is pretty universally shot down immediately. I think timed scores actually give people a false sense of security because if someone does well on the three PTs prior to their administration then they are more likely to think they're good to go, when the reality is you still have to go in and do the work on test day to get a high score.
  • bluejaysbluejays Alum Member
    42 karma
    @nicole.hopkins where do you guys hold your BR meetings? I will be available today for 59
  • nicole.hopkinsnicole.hopkins Inactive Sage Inactive ⭐
    edited August 2015 7965 karma
    @180isthegoal said:
    I will be available today for 59
    Sweet! Just add me on Skype -- nikkers625 . We're on at 8pm ET!
  • jyang72jyang72 Alum Member
    844 karma
    @Pacifico, why does timed PT give people false sense of security? Isn't it true that it shows how well you can do under timed pressure?
  • NYC12345NYC12345 Alum Inactive Sage
    1654 karma
    @jyang72
    Timed PTs are indicative of performance under timed constraints.
  • NYC12345NYC12345 Alum Inactive Sage
    1654 karma
    The October exam is PT 76. That's all. There is nothing different about it. Yes, the wording is different, but the exam tests the same skills and concepts.
  • PacificoPacifico Alum Inactive ⭐
    8021 karma
    @jyang72 said:
    why does timed PT give people false sense of security? Isn't it true that it shows how well you can do under timed pressure?
    For some people, doing well on timed PTs to the point that you're consistently 170+ can breed complacency, so then they walk in on test day expecting a 170+ and forgetting that they still have to apply all those logic/reasoning skills in order to be successful. Then those people don't understand when they walk away with a score that didn't meet their expectations. I think that this accounts for a decent portion of underperformers, with the other most significant groups being people who burned out on prep right before, and people who get test day anxiety issues.
  • jyang72jyang72 Alum Member
    844 karma
    @Pacifico, you are right. I have test day anxiety issues too even though I got good grades in college now. But LSAT is a whole different thing!
  • jyang72jyang72 Alum Member
    844 karma
    @alexandergreene93 , I know! That's why we need to do so many PTs! :)
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