PT/BR Strategy

Comments

• Pacifico Alum Inactive ⭐

  November 2015 8021 karma

  If you're actually PTing in the low to mid 170s then there's not much room on most tests for your BR scores to be a lot higher. But you should definitely be doing clean copy BR if you are not at this point.

  @Elle2015 said:
  I feel as if I should emphasize going through more PTs instead of BR
  

  This is a terrible idea. Quality over quantity is the order of the day. You sound like someone who just wants the instant gratification of getting a 170+ so you think if you take 10 PTs in the next two weeks that that is going to deliver one on test day. It doesn't work like that. You need to ditch this mindset and get with the learning process. You've got 18 days left until the exam and so the absolute maximum amount of PTs anyone should be taking in that time is 6 and even that is pretty high. At this point you'd be better served doing 3-5 with excellent clean copy BR and then spend a lot of time with those confidence errors to figure out where you're going wrong.

  @Elle2015 said:
  I'm considering BRing the entire test to address this
  

  This is a complete waste of time for someone PTing in the 170s, and for someone on a tight schedule. You need to get it together and develop a better sense of your actual confidence level in an AC and then circle those you aren't 90-95+% sure on. And slow down so you can read things properly. Attention to detail is a must.
• Elle2015 Alum Member

  November 2015 edited November 2015 198 karma

  I'm not looking for instant gratification but I am still a bit awkward with the test and have pacing issues where I feel compelled to go quickly even though I have time. I thought that doing more PTs would help me with my pacing because that seems to be my main problem. I see BR as helping primarily with understanding and not with rushing, general timing or careless mistakes. For example, I finish an LR section with a few minutes to spare and I go back to check the ones I marked and I feel okay with them and they end up okay. But I miss easy question #3 because I raced through it. I thought more PTs would help me get a better grip on pacing.
  
  95-100% of my confidence errors are due to rushing or carelessness.
  
  I know this is a very basic question but what exactly is a clean copy BR? I write in the test books (I don't have any PDFs) and remember my answers so if a clean copy BR is doing questions with a clean answer sheet, I don't see how it would help much.
  
  I appreciate you taking time to give me advice @Pacifico.
• Pacifico Alum Inactive ⭐

  November 2015 8021 karma

  Real understanding leads to not rushing and not having timing issues and not committing careless mistakes.
  
  Clean copy BR is doing your BR with a completely fresh copy of the test. Much easier to do with PDFs, but people either copy whole tests or buy double the copies. That way you aren't fighting your ego to keep/change an answer.
• Elle2015 Alum Member

  November 2015 198 karma

  Thanks for clarifying what a clean copy BR is.
  
  I get what you're saying about real understanding, which is why I thought I was doing BR wrong. I just worry that a clean copy BR isn't going to make any difference. If I circle something for BR it's because it caused me trouble. Since it was particularly obnoxious, I am going to remember it and my answer and why I picked that answer. If I have any ego issues, I just have to get over them. A clean copy won't make me forget.
  
  My main issue was (and still is) that I don't yet see how BRing is going to help me with pacing. I'm coming at this from a bit of an odd/not exactly ideal situation. I've taken about 20 PTs total and fewer than 10 in the last 7 months. (My real LSAT score from Oct. is 169.) I thought that doing 5 to 10 PTs more would be good because it's practice, it builds my confidence, it's kind of fun, and it's not going to burn me out. Otherwise, I would be doing a lot of nothing but LG games in terms of the LSAT.
• 1 Like

  nicole.hopkins Inactive Sage Inactive ⭐

  November 2015 edited November 2015 7965 karma

  @Elle2015 said:
  I feel as if I should emphasize going through more PTs instead of BR
  

  No way. This is a recipe for burnout. And it's just ... wasteful.
• nicole.hopkins Inactive Sage Inactive ⭐

  November 2015 7965 karma

  @Elle2015 said:
  I just worry that a clean copy BR isn't going to make any difference.
  

  Have .. you tried it yet? The reason I came up with the clean copy BR strategy was because it was the only way for me to truly dig deep into my understanding. I didn't start doing it/recommending it because it was without effect.
• Elle2015 Alum Member

  November 2015 198 karma

  ^ I have inadvertently done it with LG and it's made no difference because I remembered. I'm an emotional test taker and if something is funny or in this case obnoxious/ frustrating, I'm definitely going to remember.
• nicole.hopkins Inactive Sage Inactive ⭐

  November 2015 7965 karma

  @Elle2015 said:
  I'm definitely going to remember.
  

  Again.
  
  You won't know it until you try.
  
  You're asking for advice ... And we're giving it! So why not try it out? You're no different from me or any other test taker. We are all emotional test takers to some degree, even hardcore ENTJ's like myself.
• Elle2015 Alum Member

  November 2015 edited November 2015 198 karma

  I feel like I'm not being clear. I always BR all of LG because LG is a real problem for me. Outside of that, most of my mistakes are careless confidence errors. I'm not doing that much changing of my answers or learning during LR/RC BR.
• 1 Like

  nicole.hopkins Inactive Sage Inactive ⭐

  November 2015 7965 karma

  Mmhmm. Folks who score in the mid 170's aren't going to be making a lot of changes. @c.janson35 often only circled, like, 2 or 3 per section towards the end. I tended to over-circle because I am obsessive about picking the meat off the bones (and was PT'ing a couple points below Corey). So BR when scoring in the 170's is very likely not a long process.
  
  So ... Did you have a question we could help you answer?
• nicole.hopkins Inactive Sage Inactive ⭐

  November 2015 7965 karma

  @Elle2015 said:
  The only thing I seem to be learning is that I need to read more carefully?
  

  There is always more to learn with this test. Even for tutors or instructors at the highest level. The test is written by humans, so there will always be movement and growth and patterns to pick up on. Obviously the margin of learning/growth tapers.
• Elle2015 Alum Member

  November 2015 edited November 2015 198 karma

  You did help. I appreciate it. I learned what a clean copy BR was and I will do it more consistently with LG instead of randomly as I have been.
  
  With LR and RC, the reviewing of the questions I marked hasn't been a problem. I think it's going as it should. I just worry about all of the careless mistakes I make. Both of you seem to agree with me that BRing the whole test, at this stage, would be a waste of time. So when I mentioned emphasizing doing PTs I meant doing new ones instead of basically taking the same test twice by BRing the whole thing. If I did the whole thing again, I didn't think I would learn anything else except to read more carefully.
  
  I'm not saying that I wish to stop BR. My initial question was about BRing the whole test to catch the careless mistakes/confidence errors that I make versus continuing as I am and only BRing what I mark.
  
  ETA: I posted this because I felt as if during the BR process I was supposed to catch my mistakes and I wasn't. Only in LG was I catching everything and that was because I was doing the entire section again.
• nicole.hopkins Inactive Sage Inactive ⭐

  November 2015 7965 karma

  @Elle2015 said:
  If I did the whole thing again, I didn't think I would learn anything else except to read more carefully.
  

  Got it. Well, maybe consider circling any question where you'd like to learn more or understand more deeply. Not just the ones where you don't feel confident. I wonder if you would end up circling more of your confidence errors?
  
  And sometimes reading errors are a sign that you might just need a break/some rest. You'll be fine—just take care of yourself and don't push it too hard.
• c.janson35 Free Trial Inactive Sage Inactive ⭐

  November 2015 2398 karma

  If you're having trouble with confidence errors, I recommend circling for blind review any question in which you can't eliminate all 4 wrong answers for real, substantive reasons. If you're fuzzy on a couple answer choices, you're not fully understanding the question, so even if you get the question right, are you really getting all you can out of it? That's what BR is for. If you're going to do BR, then don't shortchange yourself.
  
  On a side note, the only questions I would say that this doesn't necessarily apply is when you can accurately prephrase/predict the right answer. So if you clearly know the author of the stim is committing a sufficient/necessary mix-up, then you just know that's the answer and maybe you don't need to circle it. Nothing wrong with being safe though!
• Elle2015 Alum Member

  November 2015 198 karma

  ^ Thanks for the advice. I am doing that while testing and I think that's going well for me. It's helpful. I just have issues with stupid mistakes where I am sometimes doing the opposite of the task assigned or eliminating answers too quickly due to not reading properly (what I thought I read might not be something in the actual stimulus). When I look at the problem again, I almost instantly see where I went wrong.
  
  In LG, though, because of time I haven't always been eliminating the answer choices and have made mistakes with except questions because of this.
  
  But I also haven't done that many PTs recently so it could be me making a fuss about something little that I can fix without too much difficultly by paying more attention and simply slowing down or at least that's what I hope.
  
  What @nicole.hopkins said about misreading due to being tired also makes a lot of sense. I did these PTs at night (starting after 11PM) because I work late or in a noisy cafe. So when I do my next PT tomorrow, I will do it in the morning around when I would actually have the LSAT and in a relatively quiet place. Perhaps that will help.
• 1 Like

  Pacifico Alum Inactive ⭐

  November 2015 8021 karma

  You don't do POE in LG. you might have to brute force questions based on a lack of inferences, but that is still not pure POE.
  
  Also you just seem to not understand the learning process that BR offers you. Reviewing the whole test is worthless if you are in the 160+ range because it's not an effective use of your time. If all the ones you get wrong are confidence errors then you review those after you BR and score the test. It's not like you score the test, see what you got and then move on. You go back and you do further review of confidence errors as well as BR errors.
  
  And you don't just circle answers on BR because you remember them. You choose answers because you take the time to have a firm understanding of the dynamics of the stimulus and question stem and then can articulate why four ACs are wrong and one is right. This should take less than two hours in the 170s.
  
  And just to reiterate: BR helps with pacing by increasing your understanding. If you're really scoring where you say you are then you obviously have a good grasp of the test so that's not so much the issue, instead you just need to chill out a bit. You should move quickly through easy questions but never rush, there is a huge difference and if you can't see or feel that difference then you need to take some time to reflect on that.
• Elle2015 Alum Member

  November 2015 edited November 2015 198 karma

  @Pacifico said:
  You don't do POE in LG. you might have to brute force questions based on a lack of inferences, but that is still not pure POE.
  

  I understand this. I should pick the answer based on the inferences I've drawn or brute force until I find the correct one and then move on but I do often feel compelled to have an incredibly quick look at some of the other answer choices just to make sure. I know that's not a good strategy, though, so I've been ignoring the compulsion and moving on. It cost me in the last two PTs I did, but I think I just need to read more carefully and calm down. I'm not going to start doing POE for LG.

  @Pacifico said:
  If all the ones you get wrong are confidence errors then you review those after you BR and score the test.
  

  This is what I was doing and what I thought to continue doing. I was curious about doing a BR for the entire test though because people in other threads here mentioned doing that and finding it helpful.

  @Pacifico said:
  And you don't just circle answers on BR because you remember them. You choose answers because you take the time to have a firm understanding of the dynamics of the stimulus and question stem and then can articulate why four ACs are wrong and one is right.
  

  I circle them because there's something unsettling/confusing about them or because I can't confidently eliminate 4 wrong answer choices. I don't think the way I'm doing it is a problem. I just happen to remember the ones that I mark for BR because as I go through the LR and RC sections using POE if there's one I'm a bit iffy on, it makes an impression on me. Before I joined 7sage, I did something similar to BR and through doing that I was able to improve my understanding of LR questions quickly.

  @Pacifico said:
  instead you just need to chill out a bit
  

  I think this is it. There's nothing wrong. I don't need to BR whole tests. I just need to calm down and continue with the process as I was, while being more careful. I also don't need to finish LR sections with 5 or 6 minutes left.
  
  Thanks again. I'll approach my next PT with all of this in mind.
  
• Sheri123 Alum Member

  November 2015 1196 karma

  Elle2015, would you mind sharing with me what technique you used prior to 7Sage that helped you understand LR questions quickly that was similar to BR? I'm doing well on LGs but still struggling LR & the BR doesn't seem to be helping with it now for some reason. I would love to tweak what I'm doing to see if I can get it to click. Thanks
• Elle2015 Alum Member

  November 2015 198 karma

  @Sheri123 Overall, I think the idea of doing a clean copy BR is excellent and what people should stick with.
  
  I'll tell you what I did, though. As I went through each section during a PT, I naturally marked the questions I wasn't 100% sure about. When I finished, most of the time, I would immediately check my answers (a violation of the BR method) and then meticulously go through all of the questions that I marked. I wouldn't leave those questions until I understood them 100%. I would make sure that I could say this answer choice is right because of ... and these are wrong because of ... I was never okay with having a foggy understanding of things. Individually, each question absolutely had to click before I moved on.
  
  There are obvious drawbacks to the method I used. One big one being that I didn't give myself the chance to work through the problem again without being timed - I just skipped right to the answer. But one minor good thing about it for me personally (that may not necessarily work for other people) is that I didn't waste a lot of time spinning my mental wheels. There were many questions I just didn't understand. Taking a second look at them wasn't going to help me understand them any better because I had some kind of fundamental problem. Seeing the solution allowed for me to work backwards and figure it out in a way that was relatively straightforward.
  
  What I would say is this, though. BR properly, but if you don't understand something and the BR process isn't making it any clearer, admit to yourself that you don't understand, and then move on. Don't waste a lot of time making up odd reasons for why things are right/wrong.
  
  Then, and I think this is a really important step, watch the video for every single question that you marked. It doesn't matter if you figured it out during BR or not. Compare your method for solving the problem to JY's method. If it gets tedious, speed up the videos, but still watch them. See if there was anything you missed in your technique of answering the question that would have given you the ability to solve the problem faster or easier.
  
  For most people, I think this test is just a struggle and there's no easy way to get scores up. We just have to keep practicing while staying focused and trying to make the most out of every question we see.
  
• Sheri123 Alum Member

  November 2015 1196 karma

  Thanks so much, that is very helpful. I don't think I need to do a full PT BR since the type of questions I am missing seem to be fairly consistent, most of the time my errors are misreading or misunderstanding what I need to do from the question. Which is just careless on my part, I think I need to slow myself down and really process the question and the answer choices better. Thank you again.
• nicole.hopkins Inactive Sage Inactive ⭐

  November 2015 7965 karma

  @Sheri123 said:
  I'm doing well on LGs but still struggling LR & the BR doesn't seem to be helping with it now for some reason.
  

  It takes time. Even if you spend 100 hours a week on this test, it will take time.
• Elle2015 Alum Member

  December 2015 198 karma

  I'm updating this because I think that what works for me could be helpful to a few others, but I also caution against others blindly following me as my method goes against standard 7sage advice.
  
  I got quite panicky as seen in this discussion because when I was preparing for the October test I had been fairly strong in LR, but in November, after I completed the curriculum here, I was making all of these mistakes and went from hardly missing any to missing 2 to 5 in each LR section. Most of my mistakes were stupid and confidence errors as well so it really scared me since it didn't happen once or twice but went on for several PTs.
  
  What I realized was that (for me) reading the question stem first is detrimental. For whatever reason, it screws up my focus and I can't move through the section with as much clarity, comfort, or as quickly as I can otherwise. As soon as I stopped reading the question stem first, I stopped missing LR questions.
• nicole.hopkins Inactive Sage Inactive ⭐

  December 2015 7965 karma

  @Elle2015 said:
  As soon as I stopped reading the question stem first, I stopped missing LR questions.
  

  Wow so you're -0 on all fresh takes? That's quite a statistic.
• Elle2015 Alum Member

  December 2015 198 karma

  @Nicole.Hopkins So far and only in LR, yes. But it's also only true for a few PTs, not 10. I created this discussion two weeks ago so not enough time has passed to really put me to the test. I don't expect to go -0 on the real thing. That would be great and I hope to be close, but I don't want to put too much pressure on myself. For me, the biggest thing now is that going through LR feels so much better. My mind is clearer. It's fun.