Back by Popular Demand: The Old-Timer's Thread (30+ only, valid form of ID required)

Chipster Study · January 2016

@"runiggyrun" Thanks for your thoughts and thanks for the encouragement.

Pacifico · January 2016

@"Chipster Study" I got a 165 in December, but more importantly I got into Pepperdine on Gray Day with a decent scholarship so now my worst case scenario is getting paid to go to law school in Malibu and getting to live with family out there. And I could get a free MBA there if I do end up going the JD/MBA route so basically nowhere to go but up at this point. Just happy to have accomplished the mission in spite of the meandering path I took to get here. Hopefully I'll hear from my higher level safety soon and then if that goes well no questions asked then I might be able to snag a WL from somewhere in the T20.

Chipster Study · January 2016

Congrats! It is always nice to have options, isn't it?

Sheri123 · January 2016

@Pacifico Congratulations that's awesome! Was that your target school? Does anyone know if the joint degree programs add a lot more time onto finishing law school? Or how much more of a workload they end up being?

Nilesh S · January 2016

Congrats @Pacifico ... I'm guessing that with that score you might also be a strong candidate at a T14 (should you want to) not just a T20 given that you're non-traditional AND have served... one of my best friends here is from the navy. Plus if the government pays for school as it does with the friends in my class... that would be a win win. Yeah @Sheri123 the joint degree programs tag an extra year to law school at the masters level and at the doctoral degree level they can be 3 more years but that is STILL at a minimum a year less than it would take for you to do both programs separately so that is a win win in my book if you are thinking of doing a masters or a PhD at some point of time in your life.

Sheri123 · January 2016

Thanks @"Nilesh S" that is good to know.

Pacifico · January 2016

Thanks guys, Pepperdine is the lowest ranked that I applied to so we will see what the next few months hold. Pretty sure Duke is not in the cards but if I could sneak into GULC it would be pretty great especially now that I'm eligible for the Voc Rehab program since GULC has been slacking on their GI Bill maximization.

As for joint degrees it all depends on the school and the degree. Though still somewhat rare, more and more schools are offering an optional 3 year JD/MBA along with a 4 year one, while at others a 3 year JD/MBA is the only one offered (NU).

Nilesh S · January 2016

GULC is possible... I got in with a 167 and no US gpa... and you're a vet... they have a special thing for vets... there are like 4 (that I know off) in my section alone.

Nilesh S · January 2016

The key is to do the video... that's virtually a 60 second face to face interview if you can't make the trip here to meet them.

mimimimi · January 2016

@"Nilesh S"

Does T7 offer video interviews? Can we just walk into the admission office and offer to be interviewed? I want to be interviewed.

Nilesh S · January 2016

@mimimimi some do... some, like Chicago, if they are interested in you will offer you Skype interviews... you should definitely take these... but you can ALWAYS walk into the admissions office and not exactly ask to be interviewed but just let them know about your self through a general conversation... and once you have done that and are home, make sure to send a thank you email telling them that you enjoyed your visit and are grateful for the time they spared for you and would love to be a part of the school, given the opportunity.

runiggyrun · January 2016

Congratulations on Pepperdine @Pacifico and rooting for a T14 for you. Time to redeem all that good karma you have built helping all of us!

Pacifico · January 2016

If only we could exchange karma for good favor in admissions!

DumbHollywoodActor · January 2016

@Pacifico said:
If only we could exchange karma for good favor in admissions!

I’ve heard that karma on 7sage is a new soft that you can discuss on your PS.

Chipster Study · January 2016

.

Chipster Study · January 2016

Is this leaving a comment?

noobie1 · February 2016

Has anyone reached out to their UG law school advisor? Is that generally helpful or a waste of time? Or is it better to reach out to fellow alumni who've graduated from target schools?

stepharizona · February 2016

I tried and heard crickets

but reaching out to alumni from other schools has been good for networking.

Not sure if I'd ask a pre law advisor the same things I'd ask alumni but both have their merits.

2017_2018 · February 2016

@nobbie1 I majored in business management but I took two law courses back in college (a decade ago!) I reached out to the two professors for advice and reference letters. They've left my school but kindly helped me. I recommend you give it a try - never know unless you take the step good luck!

mimimimi · February 2016

@noobie1

I did talk to my UG's career center and pre-law adviser! I found it extremely helpful - only wish that I had done it sooner. I have gained new perspectives after speaking to her - knowing my strength and weakness. She gave me general directions which are similar to what you hear from 7sage mentors. But she also helped me on details that I may not feel comfortable sharing on a public forum. She reviewed my resume and pointed out formatting issues. I strongly urge you to contact yours. It doesn't hurt right?

p.s. I can make an appointment at the career center with my school email...

Pacifico · February 2016

I reached out to mine because of a bizarre C&F issue and I needed a Dean's Letter from my UG school and I wanted to make sure I was getting what I needed and from the right people. If it hadn't been for that I never would have as I applied to plenty of schools without needing to until the Dean's Letter came up.

skaplan9190 · February 2016

Hey so I'm not 30 but I am almost 26 and will be near 28 when I start law school. I'm wondering for those of you who have also been out of undergrad for a while and haven't done a post-grad program what you're doing for recommendation letters.. I know quite a few people use employers but I also haven't had a normal job since I've been a freelance photojournalist since graduating. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

stepharizona · February 2016

I'd recommend reconnecting with an old professor @skaplan9190 would be my first step. Even when you've been working for a long time an academic reference was strongly encouraged by the schools I spoke to.

Also is there an editor that you work with frequently or an agent? They could provide letters. Or if you're volunteering or start to volunteer now, you could cultivate a relationship to have someone who could be a reference in a few years as it looks like you'll have 1-2 years before you apply to schools.

runiggyrun · February 2016

I second @stepharizona's suggestion - since you haven't been out of undergraduate for very long and you don't have an employer that can speak about your intellectual capabilities, your best bet would be at least one, but preferably two letters from undergraduate professors. Did you do a thesis? If you did, your advisor should remember you well enough to write a letter. Another possibility - if you did any substantial internships, or worked at jobs that involved some sort of skills that would be applicable to law school, maybe some of those people might be able to help you out. The volunteer option might also be a good one, especially if it's something like tutoring, or a writing workshop.

skaplan9190 · February 2016

Thank you @stepharizona and @runiggyrun for the suggestions! Will definitely look into these various options

Pacifico · February 2016

What's good old people?

Sheri123 · February 2016

Just curious what other middle aged returning students going into law as a second or third career think of weighing the benefits of paying partial or full tuition to a top ranked school versus attending a non-rank available school with full scholarship?

I'm still waiting to hear back from all the other schools I applied to but have already heard from a local school that doesn't have a rank available. They have offered me a full scholarship for all three years. Graduating without debt is very appealing. I don't know if I am particularly interested in Big Law as that seems to be more in line with the Corporate career I'm leaving behind. I'm interested in public interest but not interested in a long career of low-income earnings. My family has sacrificed in order for me to return to school and complete my undergrad and then to go onto law school. So many things to consider from a different perspective as an older student including a substantially shortened career in law compared to students in their 20s or early 30s.

Would love to hear others thoughts.

marcosmcqueen · February 2016

@Sheri123 : A few questions as I wasn't clear about your career thoughts. I mean no judgement in these questions, I truly wasn't able to sort out exactly what they meant and I couldn't offer any meaningful thoughts without a better understanding.
You wrote, "I'm interested in public interest but not interested in a long career of low-income earnings." I wasn't sure how to interpret this... Did this mean that you are considering a career in public interest? Did you mean that you are not willing to deal with the vow of poverty that often demands? Which end of this sentence did you intend to carry more weight?
You also wrote, "I don't know if I am particularly interested in Big Law as that seems to be more in line with the Corporate career I'm leaving behind," and likewise I was unsure how you intended this. Was this intended to suggest that you were willing to consider it as it was in line with your experiences or that you were not?
I'm not sure if the lack of clarity I found in these sentences was a result of your own equivocal feelings or my own poor reading skills.
I do think, however, that it will be tough for folks to give you substantive thoughts if they shared my confusion. Can you offer some more clarity in those areas?

Sheri123 · February 2016

Hi @marcosmcqueen yes I am considering a career in public interest, but I am not tied to it, as once in law school I may find other areas of law more interesting. However, I think it is more practical to keep options open for potential pro-bono work on the side rather than an actual career in public interest. At this point in life I can not afford to take a vow of poverty and therefore need to consider an area of law where the earning potential is better than you typically hear about in public interest.

In regards to Big law, I left a corporate job working 80+ hours a week at times, and I am not interested in doing that again.

@marcosmcqueen I should point out that my message was just intended as self-reflection not really looking for advice. I was just wondering if others in similar situations are grappling with the same issues and dilemmas & what they think of the issues of incurring additional debt with higher ranked schools vs. no debt with lower ranked schools.

Cant Get Right · February 2016

What is the best strategy for letters of recommendation? I’ve been told that they really like to see some academic references, but how long after graduation are those still relevant and appropriate to ask for? I just feel awkward going to a professor I had 10 years ago asking for a letter. I wouldn’t feel comfortable vouching for someone I haven’t seen in a decade no matter how good a student/employee they were. I have great letters from employers, but I’d love to have some academic letters if that’s not counter productive at this point.

pritisharma · February 2016

I am very perplexed since I found out some in tech have taken a 3 year break to do law and have gone back to work in tech at (dare I say) not so great career jumps i.e. nothing they could not have achieved just working as opposed to pursuing law. these are T6 law grads . I do not know them so well as to ask them WHY ? but I am more than mildly curious at these choices . Any insight is appreciated.

Cant Get Right · March 2016

@pritisharma

I know a Harvard Law grad who did exactly that. She graduated top of her class, worked for like two years in a big law firm, and then quit to go back to school for tech. Everything I've heard about working at the big, top firms is that they are really miserable places. So maybe that accounts for a lot of that.

stepharizona · March 2016

@Sheri123 I think knowing what you want to do after school helps a lot with debt ratio plus the type of school you "need"

Some schools, where you'll pay full price, have partial or full debt forgiveness if you do PI.

For me personally I wouldn't go to an I unranked school, even if it was free. The BAR passage rate for many of those schools is horrible, plus job prospects are low. How valuable is a free law degree it's not going to help you practice the law, is my train of thought.

Pacifico · March 2016

@Sheri123 I wouldn't go to any unranked law school even if it was free and they paid me on top of that. I wouldn't go anywhere outside the T14 at sticker unless their tuition was really low (e.g.- in state tuition), and if you aren't looking for big law then really you should not go anywhere that would land you over $100k in debt. I finished UG $90k in debt and it was totally stupid, but I was young and naive and my parents had no clue since they didn't face that kind of reality when they were in school. I'm pretty debt averse when it comes to education, but that does not mean it is a good idea to waste three years of your life getting a degree from an unranked law school. Quite frankly I wouldn't go anywhere in the triple digits whatsoever. There is plenty of money to go around at decent schools in the 30-99 range if you know where you want to go to school, work, and live in the future. If I were you I'd rather go to UNC with a small scholarship than a full ride to Campbell or NC Central since the former is under $30k/yr for in state tuition and plays well in the Triangle. If I didn't have the GI Bill to pay for school I'd shoot for T14, T50 public or T75 private where they'd throw a lot of money at me. I know a full ride anywhere sounds amazing, but the education you receive and the prospects you have afterwards are not going to be worth the tradeoff in my opinion.

Sheri123 · March 2016

@Pacifico and @stepharizons, I agree completely about bar passage rate and employment. The school that offered me the full scholarship has surprisingly high employment & first time bar passage rates. I agree with UNC but the are holding my app for further review which from what I have read is better than being put on a waitlists. I'm visiting UNC next week so hopefully that will help. A lot of the schools I applied to were waiting for Feb score release, which did not go well for a couple of reasons. So hopefully I will start hearing from some of the other schools now.

mimimimi · March 2016

@Sheri123 I share your concerns. I too am interested in public sectors. I think that in general people at better ranked schools are more interested in public sectors hence it is easier to find people who share your interest and build a network there. It sounds like you are going to law school to fulfill a personal aspiration. Good Luck!

pritisharma · March 2016

@"Can’t Get Right" hmmm I am wondering how much worse than any big tech firm would big law be :-) Also if there is data specifically on people in tech doing law. I am looking to network with such a group if there is one. Cannot think of a better way to get an insight on this issue

Pacifico · March 2016

@Sheri123 the one thing that worries me about the employment and bar passage rates in the sub 100 to unranked schools is there is a lot of shadiness going on. Of course it is not happening at every school but it can be difficult to ascertain what is fact versus fiction, especially when there are schools out there that pay their worst graduates not to take the bar exam in order to boost the bar passage rates. I would highly recommend that you and everyone else go to http://www.lstscorereports.com and see what Law School Transparency has to say about what is really going on at your target schools.

johnmelcon · March 2016

I'm new to this thread but not new to the age group. Law is an early/mid career change for me, as of the last six months. Like was mentioned above, I actually wrote about being a parent in one of my applications (not in a PS or DS, but in some section on activities/involvements). For what it's worth, I ended up with a full ride to that school--a T14 school.

At our age (especially if you already have kids) cost is a much bigger issue than for the 22 year olds climbing all over TLS. There's no way I can consider working 80 hrs/wk to pay down loans, so it's pretty much choosing the best school at the best price.

By the way, @Pacifico I've spent some time at Pepperdine Law School and it's very good option. The biggest problem is you're just not going to find affordable family housing anywhere within 20 minutes of the school, and even at that distance things are very expensive (compared to, say, North Carolina).

twssmith · March 2016

@johnmelcon Congrats on full ride T-14!!

@johnmelcon said:
At our age (especially if you already have kids) cost is a much bigger issue than for the 22 year olds climbing all over TLS.

Amen! Especially in my household where our twin daughters will be starting undergrad this Fall - the only way I would be able to attend law school is with a full ride.

stepharizona · March 2016

@johnmelcon said:
For what it's worth, I ended up with a full ride to that school--a T14 school.

Congratulations!!!! Which school will you be attending in Fall?

stepharizona · June 2016

Since we have a group of OWLs that have recently joined I wanted to bump

Nicole Hopkins · June 2016

I'll officially be allowed in this thread in 15 days, y'all!

stepharizona · June 2016

@"Nicole Hopkins" said:
I'll officially be allowed in this thread in 15 days, y'all!

Woohoo its all uphill from there!

David Busis · June 2016

@mimimimi You should check the instructions for each school, but I've never encountered a personal statement in the wild that needed to be 1300+ words. In my experience, 650–850 words tends to hit the sweet spot. See if you can focus your story.

stepharizona · June 2016

Welcome

to the club @"Nicole Hopkins"

Nicole Hopkins · June 2016

Haha ... Yep finally I am allowed at the big kids table!

Cant Get Right · June 2016

Welcome to the other side @"Nicole Hopkins" !

stepharizona · October 2016

Saw some older people had joined so wanted to bump this up.

Cant Get Right · October 2016

I dunno if anyone else is looking at NYU, but I was really excited that they don't look at our parents' incomes when considering our financial aid and everything. If you're 30+, you're on your own as far as they're concerned. I haven't discovered any others that do that.

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Back by Popular Demand: The Old-Timer's Thread (30+ only, valid form of ID required)

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