Big Discrepancy between Blind Review scores and Timed scores

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• 1 Like

  Darth Jurist Member

  November 2016 453 karma

  @lucmazzini take a couple of deep breaths, close your eyes, and recharge for about 10 seconds. I know it sounds like it won't help, but it does.
• Rigid Designator Alum Member

  November 2016 1091 karma

  In what way are you focusing on time in the LR? As in, do you keep track of your timing by looking at how long each 1 question takes, or each 5, or maybe each 10?
• 2 Likes

  Alex Alum Member ⭐

  November 2016 edited November 2016 23929 karma

  My tips for staying cool under pressure are two-fold: One, get better at the test by returning to your prep materials and having set approaches to the different types of questions you will encounter. Also, practice taking timed sections should help you get better at controlling the pressure and anxiety. Two, remember that this is just a paper and ink test. I truly think we often forget that this thing cannot hurt us the same way a lion can.

  @lucmazzini said:
  I have underlying diagnosed anxiety problems which I'm now starting to find out may be affecting me more than I previously thought especially with LR. I feel like my anxiety makes me focus on the time in my head too much which in turn messes up my focus in deeply grasping the stimulus, but I obviously am way too late to seek any type of accommodations for the December sitting
  

  Lastly, if you think you have a legit anxiety issue, see a doctor. I did too, and I lived with it for many, many years. I finally got help and found a medication that works for me... Again, I'm not sure if this is just test anxiety of something more serious.
• mazzinithesecond Free Trial Member

  November 2016 61 karma

  @"Rigid Designator" I've been catching myself looking at my watch almost after every question, maybe sometimes after every couple if I felt I took too long on a question
• mazzinithesecond Free Trial Member

  November 2016 edited November 2016 61 karma

  @"Alex Divine" It's unfortunate that we often do forget that this is merely a test, but it also doesn't help that this test demands as much as it does while holding as much weight of our future as it does. I'm going back and trying to devise ways to memorize and understand the correct ways to attack each question types as well as take more times PTs, although I feel my time running short with the December test coming up here in just 8 days. And lastly, I have been prescribed medication for my anxiety but I don't take it. I've weighed the benefits as well as the drawbacks of taking anti-anxiety medication and I feel as though I would be better without it. But hey, that could just be my anxiety making me anxious about taking an anti-anxiety medication
• Alex Alum Member ⭐

  November 2016 23929 karma

  @lucmazzini said:
  It's unfortunate that we often do forget that this is merely a test, but it also doesn't help that this test demands as much as it does while holding as much weight of our future as it does. I'm going back and trying to devise ways to memorize and understand the correct ways to attack each question types as well as take more times PTs, although I feel my time running short with the December test coming up here in just 8 days. And lastly, I have been prescribed medication for my anxiety but I don't take it. I've weighed the benefits as well as the drawbacks of taking anti-anxiety medication and I feel as though I would be better without it. But hey, that could just be my anxiety making me anxious about taking an anti-anxiety medication
  

  Very true. But that is even more of a reason to remember that this test can't physically hurt you.
  
  The truth is that this test is very important. It probably counts for 70%+ of your law school application. You know already know that. So why are you planning on taking this test in a week? You know you can at the very least achieve a 165, because that is what you scored on your blind review. That is your actual potential. Don't you think it would make more sense to postpone and wait until your PT score matches what you know your capable of?
  
  
• Rigid Designator Alum Member

  November 2016 edited November 2016 1091 karma

  @"lucmazzini" I think checking your timing after each question or two is inadvisable. Checking your timing, ironically, takes time, since you are frequently glancing at a clock and breaking concentration. Thus, by always checking the timing, you might be making your timing issues worse!
  
  I suggest trying to develop a rough strategy for the timing of the LR sections, one which revolves around using a small number of timing markers to know you're on track, and not timing each question.
  
  So, for example, my strategy is that I'd like to have spent no more than 10 minutes by the time I finish question 10, since 1-10 are generally the easiest. This means I go through questions 1-10 and only really look at the clock around maybe 7-8-9 to make sure I'm gonna be at, or under my 10 minute goal.
  
  This leaves me with 25 minutes to do the remaining ~15 questions. This means I know I can be flexible. I then move on to questions 11+.
  
  At this point I usually don't check my timing until question 18, 19, or maybe 20. For me, personally, I then like to see (roughly) 10+ minutes remaining on a 25 or 26 question section when I make this final timing check, since I then know I've got room to work with at the end.
  
  With this plan in place I'm only really checking my timing once, twice, maybe three times throughout the LR section - and only to see that I'm on the right track. Remember, there's variance to these questions in terms of difficulty! Some will take longer than others.
  
  To get this sort of a plan in place yourself might be a bit trickier if you're sitting December. But I don't think it'd be impossible.
• 5 Likes

  annaantonova1009 Alum Member

  November 2016 76 karma

  @lucmazzini I was in the same boat as you (and still am). My BR's are consistently 170+ (average of 174) but I'm currently scoring in the 160s on the timed runs. So I can completely relate to your frustration of knowing that you have so much potential, and you're grasping the concepts, but 35 minutes is just not enough!
  
  I have a technique that really helped me with timing on LR - maybe it will help you? It was easy to implement and immediately helped my scores, accuracy and confidence. I think you can probably get it down before December since its not some magical cognitive trick - its just a strategic approach to the order in which you do the questions.
  
  I noticed two things were dragging me down in the course of taking timed exams:
  
  1) I was getting stuck on questions and over-investing time. You're probably doing this. Everyone is. It's natural and it's a a trap!
  
  2) I found that oftentimes the questions that were hardest for me were in the middle and they sucked the time out. On BR I would get to the end of the section and find a bunch of easy questions that would have been "low hanging fruit", but I didn't even get there because I spent 4 minutes trying to decipher that abstract SA question that I probably got wrong anyway. And it made me so mad upon BR to realize that I missed the easy Q26 that was a Main Point (which happens so often!)
  
  Remember - each question is worth the same, so it's in your interest to get to as many questions as possible.
  
  What I did was I started skipping around to make sure I get to all the easy, short questions that I am comfortable with. And that helps with my nerves because it boosts my confidence. I imagine it might help with your anxiety as well.
  
  I identified the question types where my speed/accuracy was not ideal (NA and SA) and those that I knew I would get right, but would be time consuming (Parallel Flaw/Reasoning and Principle Application). So when I see that question stem, I circle the Q to come back to it later (I also make a circle on the scantron to make sure I don't mess up my bubbling). I also run like the plague if I get some twisted philosophical abstract question about morality because I know it's a trap and there are 10 more questions on subject matters I can grasp more easily!
  
  Basically, I make sure I get to all the questions I can breeze through (Main Point, Argument Part, Flaw, Strengthen, Weaken, MBT) and then I come back to the ones that give me more anxiety knowing that I got to all the ones that I have the best chance of getting correct and I'm not leaving any easy points behind.
  
  My timing is still not perfect, but I am generally able to finish an LR section, whereas previously I'd just leave around 5-6 questions unanswered. Now it's 0-2 (and they are the challenging ones that I might not have gotten right anyway).
  
  I started using a variation of this technique on RC and LG as well. Set-up and reading the passage is where the biggest investment lies - so I'd rather invest in a passage with 8 questions and leave the one with 5 for last. I don't think it's true that passages and games necessarily get harder as the section progresses. Often I find that the 2nd or 3rd passage or game are the time-sucks. So I identify the ones with the most questions and the subject matters/game types I feel most comfortable and do those first.
  
  I hope that helps!
• 1 Like

  Cant Get Right Yearly + Live Member Sage ⭐ 🍌 7Sage Tutor

  November 2016 27900 karma

  @"Rigid Designator" said:
  @"lucmazzini" I think checking your timing after each question or two is inadvisable.
  

  Definitely checking your time too much! I think @"Rigid Designator" 's advise is solid. This is also an indication that you're just freaking out. You're probably trying to make up for time by moving really really fast--physically and mentally--and this is almost certainly costing you points. Try some drills where you just take a section without the time pressure and use a stopwatch to see what your natural pacing is.
  
  Use @annaantonova1009 's skipping strategy as well. I don't know any high scorers who don't use an aggressive skipping strategy, so don't let yourself get bogged down!
• mazzinithesecond Free Trial Member

  November 2016 61 karma

  @"Alex Divine" I've been signed up for the December one since I postponed the past June sitting for the same reason. I was going to take it in September but I studied abroad and would have only had a month to study, so I put it to December thinking I'd have more time. Unfortunately I can't ever catch a break because I'm a very involved and very busy person, so from the time I got back to the US in the beginning of August to now, I've really only been intently studying for about 2 months. I'm a senior and can't really push it back any further without taking a year off, which I was extremely against for my own sake. Although I wanted a year off after I graduate in this upcoming Spring to be my last resort, if I don't do well on the December one, it'll be inevitable.
• mazzinithesecond Free Trial Member

  November 2016 61 karma

  @"Rigid Designator" said:
  I think checking your timing after each question or two is inadvisable. Checking your timing, ironically, takes time, since you are frequently glancing at a clock and breaking concentration. Thus, by always checking the timing, you might be making your timing issues worse!
  

  I definitely agree it's been making both the timing and anxiety worse for me! I have been trying to devise a very similar strategy to the one you use. On my last PT I tried to make sure I did the first 10 in the first 10 minutes, but I kept glancing after every couple to make sure I was on track but obviously we're establishing the fact that even though I had a guide, I was still looking at the time too much to make sure I was sticking to it. I only have time for maybe 2-3 more PTs before the test but I'm definitely going to try to work on the strategy. Thanks for the advice!
• mazzinithesecond Free Trial Member

  November 2016 edited November 2016 61 karma

  @annaantonova1009 said:
  I have a technique that really helped me with timing on LR - maybe it will help you?
  

  Just like @"Rigid Designator"'s timing strategy, I've also been trying to do this more often! When I was scoring really low in the beginning I realized it was because I would get stuck on questions taking way too long trying to figure them out. I just physically couldn't skip questions due to my perfectionistic traits. Thankfully I've gotten out of that obnoxious habit and begin to skip around! I didn't realize that is what very high scorers do, so that helps a lot to know that is the best way to make sure you get to all the easy ones.
  
  I try to bounce around on LG to find the games I know I can complete much more rapidly than others, but I've never tried it for RC. Maybe that will help boost my RC as well! Your advice has been amazing and I thank you for it.
  
  

  @"Cant Get Right" said:
  You're probably trying to make up for time by moving really really fast--physically and mentally--and this is almost certainly costing you points.
  

  That's exactly what's happening. Once I start getting off pace, I try to get back as quick as possible and sometimes forget that I can simply skip the harder ones I don't get right way instead of wasting time trying to decipher them.
  
  Like I just told annaantonova1009, it's good to know that the high scorers use skipping techniques to get to all the easier questions because for some reason I didn't think it could help as much as it does!
• Cant Get Right Yearly + Live Member Sage ⭐ 🍌 7Sage Tutor

  November 2016 27900 karma

  @lucmazzini , @"Alex Divine" will be along shortly to elaborate on this better than me, haha, but if you need to take a year off to get your score (and it sounds like you do), don't even sweat it. Almost no one reaches their potential in the amount of time you've had. And given the difference that 13 points on your LSAT will make to the rest of your life, there's just no question.
• 1 Like

  Alex Alum Member ⭐

  November 2016 edited November 2016 23929 karma

  @"Cant Get Right" said:
  @lucmazzini , @"Alex Divine" will be along shortly to elaborate on this better than me, haha, but if you need to take a year off to get your score (and it sounds like you do), don't even sweat it. Almost no one reaches their potential in the amount of time you've had. And given the difference that 13 points on your LSAT will make to the rest of your life, there's just no question.
  

  Cantgetright is absolutely correct!
  
  First, taking a year off generally helps with admissions. Law schools almost always prefer candidates with post-grad work experience. Not to mention, this is a HUGE boost when it comes to getting a job post-law school.
  
  Second, your LSAT score is going to be the most important factor in determining: what school you get into, how much money you pay to go, and what type of employability you have after you graduate.
  
  3-5 points can often be the difference between going to an OK regional school and a state flagship or top law school! These open up a plethora of job opportunities that are usually only open to the top students at a lower tier school. You are presumably entering law school with the intention of becoming and attorney and are probably planning on working in the legal industry until retirement, correct? Well, if so, think about how little one year matters to a 35-40 year career. Especially if it means the difference between your dream job and doing doc review for 12$/hr from an ad you found on craigslist.
  
  Lastly, LSAT points translate into scholarship opportunities. Often 5 points on your LSAT can be the difference between graduating with 250k in debt and 50k in debt. It is hard to imagine how much money this is now, but when you're 33 and looking to get married, have kids, get a house and your student loan payments are 3.5k a month, you'll wish you had just taken the extra year off. It’s worth it.
  
  So @lucmazzini you have already admitted that plans didn't work out and you haven't had sufficient time to study. Don't waste a take just because you are already signed up, rather count your losses because the $200 bucks out the window is not even a drop in the bucket when it comes to the potential cost of taking the LSAT before you are prepared.
  
  I was in a similar position back in July when I began my prep. I had just graduated and didn’t want to sit out a year because it didn’t jive with my plans. I quickly realized everyone has the potential to do well on this exam if it is given the due respect. So I changed my plans… Simple as that. If you want to be a successful attorney you have to start making smart decisions now. Taking this test unprepared just isn’t a smart choice, no matter how you slice and dice it.
  
  Take as long as you need to hit your score goal. It might take a 6 months, a year, or even two years. But, if it is the difference between graduating from a T14 with little to no debt and John Marshall with 300k in debt and no job prospect, so what? Believe me, that often is the difference….
  
  Now, let me address the common rebuttals:
  
  “But I’m not aiming for a Top law school….”
  
  A good LSAT score will still increase your eligibility for receiving a scholarship. Furthermore, when people begin to realize they are capable of doing well not this test, their actual target schools change. I can’t tell you how many times I knew of someone aiming for let’s say UC Davis only to realize they are capable of a score that can get them into Stanford…
  
  “I’m just planning on taking December for a test run so I know what to expect next time”
  
  This one is a hotly debated issue. The only merit I can see in this is if you are actually prepared enough to score within your target range. If you take this as a test run before you are prepared you are likely going to freak yourself out. You will panic because you are unprepared and possibly leave yourself mentally scarred for the next take. You’ll turn the LSAT into a larger-than-life monster that it need not be.
  More importantly, take a practice test in a lecture center, cafe, or library. You’ll score right in the same range you would have and save yourself a take. I cannot begin to tell you how many people I have come to know on their 3rd take because they took one test woefully unprepared as a “test run” and a challenging game or headache on test day ruined take number two.
  
  In sum, I think you have the potential to do very well on this test. It just seems like you need more time. Give yourself the time because you owe it to yourself to have a score that reflects your potential on this test.
  
  Good luck
  
  
  
  
• mazzinithesecond Free Trial Member

  November 2016 edited November 2016 61 karma

  @"Alex Divine" You raise several good points and definitely drive a hard bargain. What you're saying about people changing their actual target schools because of the scores they're currently getting couldn't be any more true. My three dream schools that I'd love to go to are all T20 including UCLA, Vanderbilt, or Texas, but obviously I've had to adjust my schools with the scores I've been getting. I hate that I've had to do that and hate having the mindset that I won't go there because of the scores I'm getting with just two months to study.
  
  With all that said, I still have some concerns about canceling December. Maybe you can help me out with these questions and concerns, and maybe @"Cant Get Right" could help out with this as well. As I mentioned before, I'm very involved around campus, I'm very socially active, I'm a member of Greek life, and I'm generally constantly busy. I cancelled my June test because I was taking four pretty difficult classes and was focusing on not tanking my GPA, I was a high up position in my fraternity, and I was taking a TestMasters course, but with trying to juggle all of this at once, I wasn't giving the LSAT nearly as much attention as it deserves, consequently, scoring even lower than I am now. Because it's becoming more evident I'm going to have to take a year off, I'm worried that because I will still have other responsibilities during my year off such as a job or an internship, I will continue to not be able to find sufficient time to give the LSAT as much time/attention as it deserves. Do you have any recommendations on how much studying one should do for how long? Or is it really just up to the person to find how much time it takes to really understand things? I didn't want to take the year off because I don't want to be away from school too long, so I don't want to waste any time out of school trying to continue to find time to study for it.
  
  Also say if I was to continue studying over the next several days and take a couple more PTs utilizing the various new strategies I've been taught in the earlier comments, in turn, sticking with the December sitting. I'm thinking if I score relatively well, I could weigh my options and see if I find my score good enough to go to schools I began considering when I saw I wasn't reaching my previous target schools' numbers. If I don't do well, I could use it as an example to know what test day is like and maybe get out some kinks/stresses that my anxiety might take advantage of. What I'm wondering is if I absolutely bomb it for some reason, say get in the 140s, is that going to count against me? Obviously when I eventually take it again once I'm scoring where I'm capable of, I know I'd have to write an addendum for it. But does having that score next to me scare law schools away? I also read somewhere (those words never end well) that law schools don't like to see you take it a bunch of times, especially 3 times. What do you know about that?
  
  Thanks again for all your help. You have no idea how much it means to me.
• 1 Like

  Alex Alum Member ⭐

  November 2016 edited November 2016 23929 karma

  @lucmazzini said:
  Do you have any recommendations on how much studying one should do for how long? Or is it really just up to the person to find how much time it takes to really understand things? I didn't want to take the year off because I don't want to be away from school too long, so I don't want to waste any time out of school trying to continue to find time to study for it.
  

  It is different for everyone. You might find if you hunker down and study consistently, it might only take 3-4 months to hit your target score. It might also take longer, no way to know for sure. Also, I think you have the wrong mindset about this. Finding time to study for the LSAT isn't a waste of time; it is the most important investment in your future as a lawyer you could make.
  
  Law school isn't going anywhere. Take the time to you need to do what you need to and prep sufficiently for the test.

  @lucmazzini said:
  Also say if I was to continue studying over the next several days and take a couple more PTs utilizing the various new strategies I've been taught in the earlier comments, in turn, sticking with the December sitting. I'm thinking if I score relatively well, I could weigh my options and see if I find my score good enough to go to schools I began considering when I saw I wasn't reaching my previous target schools' numbers. If I don't do well, I could use it as an example to know what test day is like and maybe get out some kinks/stresses that my anxiety might take advantage of. What I'm wondering is if I absolutely bomb it for some reason, say get in the 140s, is that going to count against me?
  

  Like I said, you're just wasting a take and the practice tests you're going to try to cram in during the next week. I often think the true mindset behind "test runs" are a bit of self-delusion and secretly hoping for a miracle. You know you haven't put in the work for this test... and miracles do not happen with the LSAT. You get what you put in every. single. time.
  
  It seems like you might have missed when I explained that taking the test when you are woefully unprepared doesn't give you an accurate example of what test day is like. Let me put it this way: If I am training to fight Brock Lesnar, and before I have properly prepared decide to just have a "test fight" with him, do you think that is going to help my stress and anxiety? No, mostly likely I'll get knocked out in 5 minutes and end up scared to get back in the ring. Again, I think you will freak yourself out way more by taking the test in December. It isn't like I'd be able to try out new strategies I've learned and practiced, or actually have any major takeaway from the fight except: "Wow, that really F****** hurt."
  
  Nothing about taking the test when you haven't prepared is a good idea. The fact you are assuming a 140s score is even a remote possibility only strengthens my position. It can hurt you at certain top schools to have a lower score on your record. You can always come back and score a 175, but it will still be a weakness on your application. Some schools average LSAT scores as well, notably NYU and Yale. Best case, it isn't going to help.
  
  I just want to see you do well, man. Taking this test next week is a bad decision and I think deep down you know it too. Life doesn't get any easier once you graduate, but you'll find time to prep and work a full time job or do anything else.
  
  
  
  
• Cant Get Right Yearly + Live Member Sage ⭐ 🍌 7Sage Tutor

  November 2016 27900 karma

  Yeah, I think @"Alex Divine" covered it well. There's no experience to be gained by taking the test unprepared. If you want to do a test run, check your area for a mock LSAT administration.
  
  I made every LSAT mistake there is, but testing before I was ready was by far the worst, and I feel like it ultimately cost me 5 or 6 points. You sound like a really intelligent, highly driven individual. Unless I'm much mistaken, you can and will master this test if you give yourself the time you need. You are just starting though; don't cripple yourself right out of the gate like I did.
• Burt Macklin Alum Member

  November 2016 170 karma

  The December test will be the second testing that I have paid for and not sat at, thought I would be ready when I registered but I realized about a two weeks ago that I'm still not within my target range. I went through this dilemma as well, twice. It sucks to have to change plans. This whole time I thought I would be able to transition out of the military and slide right into school quite easily, but I'm now looking at having to find a for a year and half until I start scoring within that target range. If I can take off a year and make money to help pay for school and raise my score to get scholarship money then it will totally have be worth it. Plus being out of the military will give me time to really decide on where I live.
• mazzinithesecond Free Trial Member

  November 2016 61 karma

  I'm upset it had to happen, @"Alex Divine" @"Cant Get Right", but I did it. I canceled my December sit.
• Alex Alum Member ⭐

  November 2016 23929 karma

  @mazzini2 said:
  I'm upset it had to happen, @"Alex Divine" @"Cant Get Right", but I did it. I canceled my December sit.
  

  You made the right choice! Congrats on investing in your future.... I've never heard of someone who postponed, studied more, and then regretted it.
  
  
• Cant Get Right Yearly + Live Member Sage ⭐ 🍌 7Sage Tutor

  November 2016 27900 karma

  It is a hard decision, but I think you made the right call. When you do finally see the LSAT, it's not going to stand a chance!