How deep will the ABA dig into our bar application

Comments

• Alex Alum Member ⭐

  December 2016 edited December 2016 23929 karma

  @combsni said:
  The more I talk to people, the more I realize that the ABA is quite active in its investigations into bar applicants. How far are they willing to dig? Will they scrutinize every tidbit of information? Will they care about my padded resume? If so, it seems a bit much.
  

  Indeed. They dig into everything, which is why it takes months. They call and verify with employers, so if you padded your resume, they will likely find out. Lack of candor on the C&F portion of the bar is one of the most common reasons potential lawyers get themselves into trouble.
  
  
• combsni Free Trial Member

  December 2016 652 karma

  @"Alex Divine" for example, say that I added additional hours of volunteer service but my old supervisor has passed away. I just don't see how they will obtain that my hours are off.
• 1 Like

  Alex Alum Member ⭐

  December 2016 edited December 2016 23929 karma

  @combsni said:
  @"Alex Divine" for example, say that I added additional hours of volunteer service but my old supervisor has passed away. I just don't see how they will obtain that my hours are off.
  

  You never know my friend. Those bar examiners dig deep. I know some people who have gone through it, and they go back to high school suspensions .... You'd be surprised what these people can find out. There's paper trails/digital trails of nearly everything nowadays. Also, law schools randomly audit things like resumes.
  
  You don't want to start your non-existent future legal career off with lies. Be honest and don't pad your resume. The things that you can lie about and get away with aren't worth the risk. No one cares whether you volunteered 150 hrs vs 300 hrs at the homeless shelter. The things that admissions officers care about most--Fulbright scholars, olympians, Nobel laureates, etc--are the things you can't lie about and get away with anyway. So my theory is that nothing you lie about and get away with is worth it, even if the chances of getting caught are .01% -- the risk is losing your future and the reward is less than negligible.
• AurBoreal Member

  December 2016 74 karma

  interesting thread this. I've been working for 10 years, and while my resume isn't padded, it is abridged. For instance - say I was a Senior Manager at Company X for 7 months, and then suddenly the role changed to 'Senior Product Manager' after 7 that months due to some reorganization, and I was then employed under the role title for 3 years: then I just say that I was a 'Senior Product Manager' for 3 years 7 months. This is more in the service of making a resume readable. So in my submissions to law schools, my CV is always the abridged version where I make the minutiae of corporate role changes less relevant. In advertising you may get 5 promotions in 3 years... but the only reason you are being promoted is so that HR can justify a pay increase. Your actual job doesn't change. It would be devastating to be turned down by the ABA if they perceived this to be a 'lie' whereas its rather just a macro view of a career path meant to make your trajectory visible to future employers. Does the ABA review the resume you submit to LSAC before 1L - or is there a special, super-non-abridged and nitpicky resume that one can submit after passing the bar?
• 1 Like

  Alex Alum Member ⭐

  December 2016 23929 karma

  @AurBoreal said:
  It would be devastating to be turned down by the ABA if they perceived this to be a 'lie' whereas its rather just a macro view of a career path meant to make your trajectory visible to future employers. Does the ABA review the resume you submit to LSAC before 1L - or is there a special, super-non-abridged and nitpicky resume that one can submit after passing the bar?
  

  This doesn't strike me as particularly egregious at all. Plenty of people do just this. I think it depends on how one chooses to abridge their resume. For example, if you started off at X company as a janitor for 4 years and then worked your way to up executive VP, but only put EVP on your resume for those 4 years, that would be an issue. What you did I'm pretty sure is fine.

  @AurBoreal said:
  Does the ABA review the resume you submit to LSAC before 1L - or is there a special, super-non-abridged and nitpicky resume that one can submit after passing the bar?
  

  No, the ABA doesn't review the resumes you submit to schools at the time of your applications. However, copies of that resume will be provided to the bar examiners along with your entire law school app. So they will eventually see it, but I don't think you'll have an issue WRT the issue in question.
  
  Every state requires different things and I am by no means an expert. You can usually check out and download each states C&F bar application for free online. I think you do have to list all your employment info separately on the NY application. This will give you the chance to put the unabridged version, for example.
  
• 1 Like

  Frostbyte Member

  December 2016 140 karma

  If you can't get an affidavit of employment from your employer (for whatever reason), then they ask you to submit an affidavit describing your best efforts to obtain the required information, and affirming that what you stated in your application is true. So I wouldn't worry too much if you have a legitimate reason.
  
  IN 2016, the NY Bar requires the following regarding employment:
  
  15. List every employment you have had since you reached the age of 21, or in the last 10 years, whichever period is shorter, in chronological order (from earliest to latest). Include your current employment, if any. Include self-employment, clerkships, temporary or part-time employment, military service, employment by members of family or other relatives, employment with or without monetary compensation, law-related work-study employment, and law-related employment for academic credit only, including participation in law school clinics and externships, and work as a research assistant. Note to applicants applying for admission on examination: do not include employments listed on your 50 hour pro bono compliance affidavit or listed on your pro bono scholars program completion affidavit.
  
  For every law related employment (like internships, clinics, etc.), you need an affidavit filled out by the employer (or their representative) personally.
  
  You also need an affidavit filled out by your supervisor for the pro bono hour compliance.
  
  You will also need two character and fitness affidavits from people who have known you for at least 2 years, are not professors/family, and are themselves not applying for the NY Bar.
  
  Applicant must submit two (2) original good moral character affidavits as part of an application for admission (see 22 NYCRR 520.12). The affidavits should be completed by reputable persons who have known applicant for not less than two years. The affidavits should not be completed by persons who also complete employment affidavits on applicant’s behalf. The affidavits should not be completed by persons associated with applicant’s present employer or persons related to applicant by blood or marriage or by other applicants or by members of the faculty or administrative staff of any law school attended by applicant. Preferably, one affidavit should be completed by an attorney in good standing. The person completing the affidavit should return it to the applicant, who should file it with and at the same time as his or her application for admission questionnaire.
• AurBoreal Member

  December 2016 74 karma

  Quality of 7Sage contributors is always top notch - thanks.