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Why aren't some law schools ranked?

nicole.ann.keimnicole.ann.keim Alum Member
in Law School Admissions 22 karma

Hey everyone!

So I currently work at Regent University School of Law admissions and I've heard some great things in the local area about grads from here and job placement. However, it is a very small, religious, private school which is unranked. Compared to other schools it is pretty young. Why are some schools like this not ranked? Has anyone heard anything negative about this school? The professors here are from mostly Ivy League schools and seem to be very solid.

I am applying to law school soon for the fall of 2018, so I have a bit of time to research and decide my path. I'm currently living in Virginia Beach and my husband is stationed here. We own a house so that's why I am more tempted to stay within the area. It would be ideal for me to be able to go to law school while he stays in the Navy for a few more years for financial reasons. I recently separated from active duty myself to pursue my educational goals. So my first choice is William and Mary because of the location and the community it's in. It seems that plenty of people are getting jobs around here from there and in DC, with pretty decent starting salaries. I'm seeing a trend of people who pretty much have unlimited geographical opportunities and while I wish I did also, I have my other half to think about too. I will apply to UVA, Duke, and Georgetown as well but they are all around three hours from my home. I am taking my LSAT in June, so of course this will determine what is realistic. The only thing that worries me is that I don't want to commit career suicide by choosing the wrong school.

Maybe this is a far too altruistic way of thinking in this line of work, but skills and personality have to account for something right? I still have no idea what kind of law I want to practice but I do know that I have confidence in myself to succeed at whatever school I go to and in whatever field I decide to pursue after. I am really looking for thoughts here and input. Thanks everyone.

-Nicole

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Comments

  • stgl1230stgl1230 Member
    edited March 2017 821 karma

    Hi Nicole, there are two ways that US News refers to "unranked" schools. The first category is truly "unranked" - I think that these schools did not supply US News with enough information for them to make an assessment. It looks like Regent falls into "Rank not posted" - it looks like they supplied US News with all of the information they needed, but they fell beyond #144, which is the lowest numerical ranking they offer.

    I think that you are asking the right questions. And to be frank, if you want to avoid career suicide, don't go to Regent. I understand that it works well for your life right now, but with so many other (ranked) law programs in Virginia, Regent is not a good choice for anyone. If you haven't yet, I'd read some articles about third-tier (and fourth-tier) law schools online. Not a good option if you want to be a lawyer, even if you get a full ride.

    Your other schools seem like solid choices. William & Mary is a great school. I would just be cautious about your job prospects in DC, regardless of how the university sells it. I understand that quite a few W&M grads end up there, but DC is crazy competitive and W&M does not have the same power as a T14 in getting you to the market you want. You should definitely be targeting UVA, Duke, GT, and W&M. Just know that with Georgetown, simply being in DC /=/ great DC job prospects. Georgetown is a realllllly big school and its placement numbers are falling behind the rest of the T14, although it's still a top school, especially when compared to anything outside the first tier.

    Skills and personality absolutely matter in the legal market, especially when it comes to securing summer jobs. To an extent, they matter in the law school admissions game, too. But your LSAT and GPA are far more important at this stage. Work on a great LSAT score so you can go to an amazing school that gives you opportunities to explore different areas of the law. Best of luck!

  • AlejandroAlejandro Member Inactive ⭐
    2424 karma

    Yeah, job recruiters look at the top schools because that is typically where the smartest and highest quality applicants go to. Obviously this is not a hard rule. I'm sure some really smart people do go to Regents law school; but many not-so-smart people go there too. Their LSAT median is 152 and their GPA median is 3.36. Getting into a school like UVA or Georgetown is REALLY hard so recruiters for the best jobs already know that graduates from those schools had to be really smart/qualified to even get accepted to those schools in the first place. It's a self selection kind of thing. Anyways, @stgl1230 is pretty on point with her comment. Aim as high as you can, work for it, and you will be successful. Best of luck with your LSAT studies. You are definitely in the right place/community if you want to maximize your score.

  • texvd1988texvd1988 Member
    605 karma

    See, I keep on getting this tier 3 or 4 nightmare status, but I also get people saying that regional schools can be okay so long as you stay in that region. I have spoken to 4 students from St. Mary's in San Antonio, and all have said that you can get a job out of school, but big law will be difficult without a top 5% ranking.

    I have also looked at the firms in San Antonio and about 80% of attorney's are from St. Mary's. I feel like you need to understand who you are as a student when taking the risk of a tier 3 or 4.

    Have you consistently been a good student? If so, you will probably be a good student at a tier 3 or 4 and place high enough to stand out against students applying from other higher end law schools.

    If you have been a middle of the road student, it may be best to get a safety net by going to a tier 1 or tier 2 university. That way, you automatically placed in a favorable pool of applicants.

  • stgl1230stgl1230 Member
    edited March 2017 821 karma

    @accountformerlyknowasvd1988 said:

    Have you consistently been a good student? If so, you will probably be a good student at a tier 3 or 4 and place high enough to stand out against students applying from other higher end law schools.

    If you have been a middle of the road student, it may be best to get a safety net by going to a tier 1 or tier 2 university. That way, you automatically placed in a favorable pool of applicants.

    Going to push back a little on this.

    Being a good student in high school + college does not necessarily mean that you will stand out at your Tier 3 or 4 school. Also, standing out to professors at a Tier 3 or Tier 4 probably isn't going to be enough to get you where you want to go.

    At a Tier 3 or 4 school, you are given fewer chances to stand out to employers.

    Not as many firms visit Tier 3 or 4 schools. The door is shut for you on most of the major law firms in America. Those that do make it - and there are those who succeed at Tier 3 and Tier 4 - are just plain lucky. They are the abnormality. So, you can be an amazing student, #1 in your class, at a Tier 4, but there's really no way that a V50 firm views you as a better hire than someone ranked at #50 at a T14, where they regularly recruit.

    I would also not consider going to a Tier 2 a "safety net." Anything outside the T1 is pretty risky imo, unless you are dead set on working at a small firm in your law school's neighborhood for the rest of your life.

  • texvd1988texvd1988 Member
    605 karma

    @stgl1230 said:

    @accountformerlyknowasvd1988 said:

    Have you consistently been a good student? If so, you will probably be a good student at a tier 3 or 4 and place high enough to stand out against students applying from other higher end law schools.

    If you have been a middle of the road student, it may be best to get a safety net by going to a tier 1 or tier 2 university. That way, you automatically placed in a favorable pool of applicants.

    Going to push back a little on this.

    Being a good student in high school + college does not necessarily mean that you will stand out at your Tier 3 or 4 school. Also, standing out to professors at a Tier 3 or Tier 4 probably isn't going to be enough to get you where you want to go.

    At a Tier 3 or 4 school, you are given fewer chances to stand out to employers.

    Not as many firms visit Tier 3 or 4 schools. The door is shut for you on most of the major law firms in America. Those that do make it - and there are those who succeed at Tier 3 and Tier 4 - are just plain lucky. They are the abnormality. So, you can be an amazing student, #1 in your class, at a Tier 4, but there's really no way that a V50 firm views you as a better hire than someone ranked at #50 at a T14, where they regularly recruit.

    I would also not consider going to a Tier 2 a "safety net." Anything outside the T1 is pretty risky imo, unless you are dead set on working at a small firm in your law school's neighborhood for the rest of your life.

    Okay, you're actually right there. Big law will definitely be a problem, but if you can accept a life working for small firms and starting at 50k to 60k out of law school, you can be okay. So it really depends on the kind of return you want.

    We have two big law firms in San Antonio. You are right on the numbers.

    Out of a firm of about 10 to 20 attorneys, there are only 2 St. Mary's graduates. It is a crap shoot.

    Still the small to mid-size firms are full of St. Mary's grads so, once again, it is completely reliant on your career goals.

  • stgl1230stgl1230 Member
    edited March 2017 821 karma

    @accountformerlyknowasvd1988 You're right, there are definitely paths other than big law - it's just that often times, the schools that give you the best shot at big law are going to give you the best shot at everything else.

    With regards to small/medium firms being full of St. Mary's graduates - you are definitely right that it is possible, and not uncommon, to find small firms that will take you from a T3 or T4 school (and, yeah, to your point about low pay). But again, career goals. You would have to be 100% committed to your small firm and your neighborhood to make that work. For most people applying to law school, this isn't realistic because life happens and most people are young.

    Also, just using St. Mary's/San Antonio as an example: while it's true that many small firms are filled with St. Mary's grads, how many St. Mary's grads /didn't/ make it to those firms? What if all the people working at those small firms were the top 5% of their respective class? Where do the St. Mary's people that strike out in San Antonio go? It's hard for me to imagine that St. Mary's has much of a reputation outside the region, let alone the state. That is what I would worry about when choosing a T3/4.

  • texvd1988texvd1988 Member
    605 karma

    @stgl1230 said:
    @accountformerlyknowasvd1988 You're right, there are definitely paths other than big law - it's just that often times, the schools that give you the best shot at big law are going to give you the best shot at everything else.

    With regards to small/medium firms being full of St. Mary's graduates - you are definitely right that it is possible, and not uncommon, to find small firms that will take you from a T3 or T4 school (and, yeah, to your point about low pay). But again, career goals. You would have to be 100% committed to your small firm and your neighborhood to make that work. For most people applying to law school, this isn't realistic because life happens and most people are young.

    Also, just using St. Mary's/San Antonio as an example: while it's true that many small firms are filled with St. Mary's grads, how many St. Mary's grads /didn't/ make it to those firms? What if all the people working at those small firms were the top 5% of their respective class? Where do the St. Mary's people that strike out in San Antonio go? It's hard for me to imagine that St. Mary's has much of a reputation outside the region, let alone the state. That is what I would worry about when choosing a T3/4.

    All excellent points in that regard. It is, without a doubt, a regional school and will do little to nothing outside of San Antonio and possibly Austin. More to the point, it probably takes being a top student to take a small to mid-level job out of the school.

    From the four that I spoke with, none were top of the class, but all were top 50% in the class. From our conversations, they advised me that this is the metric you really want to hit if you want to get that small to mid-level job. This could be luck on their part, but they surprisingly weren't as soft on St. Mary's as I expected.

    I am still weary, of course, and won't go there unless I get at least 50 to 75% off ticket.

    Otherwise, I will either bite the bullet and go to SMU/Baylor/ U of H or just wait it out until next year, retake, and hope I can get UT Austin.

    This next month waiting for acceptances will be brutal.

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