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Extracurriculars for Non-Traditional Law Students
tringo335
Alum Member ⭐
I have another 1-2 years before I apply to Law School. Being a NTS, with student government leadership positions in Undergrad, 2 professional certifications, leadership positions in local Human Resources associations and 8 years of work experience do I need any other 'soft' skills to add to my application? Since I have a while before I apply, I figure I have time to add a few more things that could get me ahead of someone else in a tie-breaker. I also have a low GPA (3.5) so I feel I need as many legitimate, quality extracurriculars as I can get. I am becoming a CASA (Court Appointed Special Advocate) volunteer this year and hoping that will also put me over the edge. Will that be enough? Am I overthinking this?
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Hey don't knock yourself, thats a great GPA! It's really beautiful that your volunteering with CASA too! Just please do it for the right reasons and not for some silly bump in an admin decision. Forget about it being an extracurricular at all, those kids need good people. Be that dedicated altruistic person and I think that will be more than enough.
Thanks @elizabeth23! I of course am volunteering with CASA for altruistic reasons. The reason I want to be a lawyer is to help others (hence the hard studying because I will need a scholarship as I don't intend on making any money once I graduate.) I added that to the list of extracurriculars because it is and wanted sound advice. Thanks for the input!
That's awesome, I'm so happy to hear that. Well good luck with your prep, you're going to do great!!
Feel free to message me if you want to study!
It largely depends on where you want to go and if you're going to do public interest you have a lot of options.
Applying two years from now could look very different than today. Maybe you might want to consider taking the GRE.
I wouldn't recommend anyone to take the GRE instead of the LSAT if they wish to pursue law school. There is absolutely no indication that this will widely replace the LSAT for admissions. Harvard is the only school who has said they will take it, so until there is more news I wouldn't count on a widespread adoption.
Continue to focus on the LSAT
your score on that test will outweigh any extracurriculars (softs) that you may possibly have. 1-2 extra points on the LSAT blows away any resume boosters that you could think of outside of incredibly unique circumstances. Study, study, study!
That's a fairly strong statement that there is "absolutely no indication." I would agree that the LSAT is still obviously paramount but I was just stating in general that things could change in two years. The digital test is coming as well which would alter test taking techniques that people may have been acquiring.
Yeah maybe I overstated. At any rate, with the info that we know now, we can't really start preparing for changes that haven't happened yet. Even if it does go digital (likely a few years out at the earliest) there's no reason to prepare for those changes when we 1. don't know with any detail what the changes are going to be and 2. there isn't any timeline given yet.
I would still say prepare your best with the information we have available.
I'd have to agree with @Mellow_Z ... Since only one school has approved GRE, I think it would be best to stick to the LSAT. But thanks for the input @RafaelBernard ! I'm wondering if @"david.busis" can weigh in on my original question about softs?
Building on the question initially posted by @tringo335 , I am also a NTS, as I am older than many and was a single mother for the majority of my undergraduate time. I did not have time to join fun groups or volunteer in career advancing places, aside from my daughter's school, and that was only because I had to for UF credit hours. I am currently not working because I am studying for the LSAT daily. I worked during school, but only with the intent to make ends meet.
I instead focused on maintaining my 4.0 GPA during a tumultuous divorce and custody battle.The only thing I did that could be considered over and above, was to write an honors thesis in order to receive my Summa designation. It was an excruciatingly long and difficult process, but it wasn't job or volunteer experience.
Is this lack of student involvement and activity going to hurt me? My student activity was my own academic achievement, helping my two kids adjust and be successful in school, and continually trying to put food on the table. Does anyone know if this will hurt my application? Thanks @tringo335 for presenting the topic.
Shout out to @shindavis16 for being a female warrior!! Holding it down with the kiddos and a 4.0; you rock lady! Can't wait to see where that determination takes you.
@tringo335 and @shindavis16, I too am a non-traditional student and worry how that may impact my application. For those of us in the non-traditional basket, especially those of us with children, I think it is important to show in your application materials that you can achieve academically and shoulder various responsibilities. As my undergraduate and graduate days are long since gone, I am relying on my magna cum laude designation (3.86) and master degree (3.71) to show academic strength, but I am also offering my professional certifications and organizational achievements as my "extra curricular activities" to help round me out. And of course, study study for the LSAT.
Just as a follow-up regarding the suggestion of studying the GRE, The University of Arizona College of Law now accepts LSAT or GRE scores for admission. The U of A is an extremely respectable law school and I think it is telling of a possible trend towards acceptance of other qualifying tests for law admission.
Your background is perfect for an amazing personal statement. Your PS will likely amount to a lot of weight in your application given the strength of what you went through. With that being said, spend a lot of time on it, use lots of references/resources for help, and get it edited.
With a 4.0, you wouldn't need to worry about softs. Kill the LSAT and you will be accepted without question. Nothing you "didn't" do will hold you back, only your LSAT score at this point.
Your GPA is certainly impressive; do you think a volunteer role would help add to the soft skills? Even though I held leadership positions in undergrad and have a couple certs, since those were both gained so long ago, I often wonder if a more recent volunteer role or leadership position would put me over the edge.
Whether it did or didn't I'd still be volunteering for CASA and plan to do so until I attend law school as it's a passion of mine, but I wonder as I'm completing applications and personal statements if I should I focus on that volunteer role or more on my other softs completed in undergrad that were more leadership roles.
Also, I had no idea more schools were accepting the GRE outside of Harvard ... interesting.
I say start the early application process, tour some schools, figure out what school appeals to you and write some personal statements. If you want to go to law school this year, your a little late for the early admissions money discount party; next year (2018 entry) will probably give you the best deal (it's an investment) & allow time for you to complete your volunteer goals.
From what I've noticed, just bring a solid lsat score combined with your gpa to give you the best opportunity for the best schools or to have tuition reduction. From reading and talking to law students - if you scored in the high 160s (like 168) it would give you a decent opportunity to get into a low T14 school and maybe even a full ride to T2 or T3. 3.5 gpa is a little low for Harvard or Stanford.. Of course law schools look at other factors like if you "fit" their perspective student pool and if you have extensive life experience/famous person?/personal story. Anna Ivey's book on law school admissions discusses this. I'd probably say the ratio is 60% lsat score, 30% gpa and 10% personal statement/ recommendations. (Unless your family is a big school donor/ in with dean/ ect.)
3.5 gpa is a good gpa, sounds like you have a good resume too - just seal the deal with Lsat.
Everything depends on your motivation and goals. What do you want to do with your law degree? Public interest, criminal law or business law or Estate or something else? Have you shadowed any lawyers? Familiar with the job?
Like someone mentioned already, wouldn't plan on taking the GRE for law unless your target school accepts the GRE. The GRE is a tricky test too - LSAT was a littler easier from having taken both (Not a math guy); The length of the lsat can mentally drain you though if you haven't prepped.
Goodluck!
Heh. I think the GRE is way more simple than the LSAT. Less tricks and curves that the authors try and throw at you. It's basically the SAT/ACT of college curriculum. BUT, I also am partial to wasting time studying that test. The LSAT seems to be more rewarding mentally after mastering its contents.
Your softs sound great to me! At this point, you might also think in terms of what could give you a good story for your essays—and being a CASA sounds like it might!
Thank you @tringo335, @hhhiser_06 and @Mellow_Z. That was very helpful. @tringo335 I fell in love with the mission of 7Sage for the very reason that it wanted to level the playing field for all minorities- and as a socio-economically challenged, single mom, who is also in my 30's I felt I fit that description. I actually cried reading it because I have always wanted to help women in divorce scenarios who have never had schooling or a career and thus has no money. I felt so helpless and then when my sleazy attorney solicited me for sex and then upon the giant "No!" he received, tripled my billing...I knew that I would one day help empower people like me who were taken advantage of due to circumstance and resources. So way to go to you too @tringo335 . I love to see women lift one another up rather than undercutting each other!! You absolutely made my day.
With that outlook and personality trait alone, you have do great things too!
"The LSAT seems to be more rewarding mentally after mastering its contents."
@Mellow_Z definitely agree with this. Different stages requiring different work, just as of right now, analyzing hard LR Qs could be really "addicting", precisely "bc" how damn challenging it is, hence the rewarding end result. My gf is the direct victim to my daily torturing LR analysis at this moment. :P
@shindavis16 What an amazing story and inspiration! As the best way to stop ppl who are in power from abusing power is to empower yourself. You have a great work ethic and an admirable determination despite of the hardships in life, that alone is one of the most invaluable characteristics any law school admin could ask for!
Haha that's awesome. I haven't subjected mine to TOO much yet, but she's already like "I don't care". Can't wait until we're a year into the routine and she's lost her mind just like the rest of us
Whoa @Shindavis16 - Horrible to see that you had such a bad experience & sleezball attorney. Did you report him to the bar? Wish you well on your studies and endeavors!!
I'll clarify on this one.. LSAT is a HARD test. Hence why I'm using 7sage!! LSAT is Hard to master / to score high/perfect. Both the GRE and LSAT are completely different tests, unique challenges in both test.. It is all a person's preferences and what their goals are. If you can kill the RC in Lsat, probably can probably score perfect on verbal GRE. The GRE requires more attention to math and writing. LSAT essay is not graded like AWA GRE. Iawgic use on lsat can be very difficult to someone untrained.
Both tests have their purposes, I favor the Lsat more because of the logic games and I enjoy practicing the lsat test specifically; Which lead to my bias for the lsat being easier. The GRE felt like I was pulling teeth having been 10 years removed from my last algebra course.
Drilling the foolproof of lg lately. Kinda stuck at a plateau in the high 150s/low 160s.
Thank you David! Just the encouragement I needed. Thank you for your input.
@shindavis16 OK, you are essentially my soul mate. I too decided to apply to law school for some of the same reasons. Although, I did not have a horrific experience like you did (I am so sorry that happened to you - how awful), I became interested in seriously pursuing law after my good friend was fired from a conservative institution after becoming pregnant out of wedlock. I had been working in Human Resources for about 6 years and had some knowledge of HR Law so was able to assist where I could until she found a lawyer. The situation completely outraged me because at this institution, women had been fired in the past for the same reasons but when it was discovered a man fell into the same situation they were only given a 'slap on the wrist.' It was that situation that made me think seriously about going into Law. I always held a strong interest in the legal part of my HR career and figured it was time to take it further. I too absolutely love the 7sage mission and am overwhelmed by the support the leaders have built on this site and through their courses. It is giving me the push and confidence I need to get into a top school. As a minority and a female, I'd love to see more of us in those Top 10 institutions. Rock on lady and continue to put in the good work; your passion and determination are an inspiration.
@tringo335 I loved reading your inspiration story. I think that it could at least be argued that those of us who have personal stories like these, will forces to be reckoned with. You will be for sure. I am so glad to have come into contact with you. You seem like a truly incredible person to be around. I love upbeat people.
I will look forward to seeing you succeed!!
Thank you. No, I didn't, only because I am still trying to get my portion of the retirement and pension from my ex-husband. I need access to documents my attorney possesses and if I piss him off, I will never get them. The truly disgusting things he said to me would shock you more than you can imagine. He was sued by 5 women clients for inappropriate actions/comments and for touching/kissing them against their will, but when I retained him I had no idea. Only later did I find out that he had sexually harassed several clients and workers, but only received a slap on the wrist from the bar. He was suspended for a short time.