Law school...or nah?

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• 2 Likes

  JustDoIt Alum Member ⭐

  May 2017 3112 karma

  @kH573201 said:
  If someone were to ask me, "why teach history?" I'd be able to run you down a list of reasons why. Ask me "why law?" I'd give you a blank stare...the only semi-positive being the opportunity to earn more.

  A part of me thinks you answered your own question here. Even though teaching is risky, as you stated, if you can still run the list of reasons why you want to do it, then you should follow that passion. You should know why you want to do law. I mean, granted, you should at least have an idea. This test takes a lot of time to prepare and law school is extremely expensive. If someone asks you why you are doing this and you don't have a definitive reason, it is probably not the path for you.

  And honestly, that is okay! It is so much better to figure this out now than for you to figure it out in your second year of law school. There is no rush either and law schools aren't going anywhere. So if you wanted to take time to truly figure out what you want to do, there is no harm in that. But I think you already know the answer.
• 1 Like

  Cant Get Right Yearly + Live Member Sage ⭐ 🍌 7Sage Tutor

  May 2017 27900 karma

  I don't think being 100% sure is necessary, but you probably should be able to fire off at least a couple of reasons of why you think you may want to do it. What led you to law in the first place? There must be something behind it yeah?
• Sami Yearly + Live Member Sage ⭐ 7Sage Tutor

  May 2017 10806 karma

  I think experience will tell you more if you should go for teaching or do Law instead. Maybe you can work at a firm or as a teachers assistant and see if you like it. That would definitely give you more information about the kind of work you enjoy and if this is something for you.

  I think even if you don't know why law at the moment you shouldn't cut it off. We are more familiar generally with what happens in the classroom than what happens at a firm. So maybe take up a job there and get some experience. Either way it will be more information so you can make a better decision.
• 4 Likes

  Rigid Designator Alum Member

  May 2017 1091 karma

  Hey!

  So I'm in a slightly similar situation to yourself. I did my BA and then MA in Philosophy. For the longest time I wanted to carry on with that through to a PhD, and eventually research/teach. Long story short, I realised that life wasn't for me. But I'd prepared for no other career (not wise, but hey, it's what happened. We don't really get career guidance where I went to school in the UK and you chose your major aged 17).

  Now when people ask me what my goal is I tell them law school in the USA. A lot of people then observe that I have no legal work experience and haven't studied law - 'how could you possibly know that's what you want to do?' they ask. My answer typically traverses a few main points. They might seem shallow or trite but they're honest and not unreasonable.

  First, like you mentioned, the pay. If I can go to one of my goal schools and can perform in the top 50% of my class I stand a good chance at a starting salary of $160,000. Great. That beats a £16,000 research stipend, taking part time jobs just to be able to live at university studying for a PhD in a non-STEM subject. It beats my current salary in the charity sector by a magnitude approaching x10. That's not a bad reason to want to study law.

  Second, the alternative - academia in my case - is not all that it's cracked up to be. With funding cuts, the general obscurity of my subject, the difficulty in securing tenure, the teaching load for junior faculty, the anxiety of the drive to publish, publish, publish, the loneliness of working alone, the academic's lifestyle is not as cosy as people think. Stress is not unique to legal careers, so that's not a reason to write it off, like some people think.

  Third, a lot of what I enjoyed studying philosophy can be enjoyed in a legal career. Skills in writing, presenting, debating, distilling complex ideas, weighing arguments etc. etc. etc. are all skills used by lawyers, to greater or lesser degrees. A common response to this is - 'Law is not like the movies, you're deluded to think that lawyers spend all their time debating complex arguments and writing interesting opinions. It's a lot of boring paper work in reality.' I think this response is fallacious, because it seems to assume that I think my life will be like Legally Blond or Suits. I know legal careers aren't like the movies! But that doesn't entail that legal careers are completely devoid of tasks that demand skills in critical thinking, writing, presenting etc. etc. At the very least, I'd use more of those skills in a legal career than I do in my current one, and that's not a factor to be ignored.

  Fourth, legal work is respectable work. There's nothing wrong with wanting to work a respectable job. Of course, this isn't to say there aren't other respectable jobs out there. But you can't pursue all the worlds' respectable careers - you've got to pick one eventually, so what's wrong with me picking law?

  To answer your specific question about 'passion'... I hope this doesn't sound like a cop-out answer... I feel passion for my goal. And I've set my goal as 'a legal career in the US'. Did I have some transformative experience as youngster that steered me towards a legal career? No. Do I wake up every morning having dreamt about the Law? No. But do I feel a drive to do well on the LSAT? Yes. That's a goal I set myself. Do I feel drive to gain entry in to my goal schools? Yes, because that's a goal I set myself. Do I feel a drive to succeed in my studies and gain a well-paid job at the end of it all? Yes, because that's a reasonable goal which I set for myself. Could I have picked something else? Sure. But that's just the way it is. I've got my reasons, they're not outrageous, and that's just that.

  I hope this helps. It's interesting, I think, to note that all these reasons are fairly generic. Of course I've got further, personal reasons for my decision. But hopefully you can use some of the above as ammunition when faced with that inevitable 'why law?' question.
• Alex Alum Member ⭐

  May 2017 23929 karma

  I would 100% recommend everyone interested in law school getting work experience or some sort of internship in a law related job before attending.

  I don't really have a passion for the law so much as the field of work I'm interested in. Through some internships and work history, I've gotten to see and work on a little of exactly what I would hope to be doing. I was also fortunate enough to discover that it fit my skill set pretty well. I definitely think level of passion for law is on a fluid scale, but I totally have friends that are passionate about law at large.

  If you can't think of any reasons why you want to be a lawyer, and even so much as got a masters in History, I would think long and hard about law school. Seems like you have a lot of reasons to teach and none to go to law school, at least right now.

  But if you've been thinking about it and are curious, reach out to some local attorneys and even see if they would be willing to have you shadow them for a day. If you are still interested after that you can find an internship or a job in the field of law. It's really the only way to know for sure
• Bevs ScooterMinion Alum Member

  May 2017 1018 karma

  I appreciate where your head is.

  I'd use caution with the "earning more" hope. There is much potential for a lawyer to earn more than other (most?) professions, but that doesn't mean that all (or even most) lawyers will earn more. And it depends on your definition of "more." No doubt, you've come across this in your research. I don't know the national statistics, I only know many lawyers in several states---so I'm speaking from my own (limited) experience.

  I've tried other industries, but didn't enjoy it as much as the law, so that's how I know the law is right for me. Find out what's right for you. As others have mentioned, try an legal assistant/paralegal internship to see if you like it. There are many forms you can experiment with, especially before accruing law school debt.

  Perhaps you'll become passionate about the law once you try it.
• 2 Likes

  tringo335 Alum Member ⭐

  May 2017 3679 karma

  I too think you answered your own question. If you can't think of a reason to go to law school, you should do more research to determine if it's really for you. As @"Bevs ScooterMinion" said going into law just for the money is not the best reason to go. Making in the high six figures is not guaranteed and if you have student loans that come with going to law school your discretionary income may not be as high as you are hoping. If you haven't already try reading Law School Confidential by Robert Mitchell. It's a very good read that gives insight into law school and life after by real lawyers. Good luck in your decision!
• 4 Likes

  Achen165 Member

  May 2017 656 karma

  Hi, kH573201,

  Rest assured that you are not alone in your confliction. The hindrance of wondering whether or not law school and a legal career was for me was also a big hindrance in my dedication to my studies. I would share my experiences and insights with you, and maybe this can help you gain some clarity, or at the very least, not feel so alone.

  I was also a student of the Arts--- B.A. in English Language & Literature, whose professors really pushed me to go the M.A. to PhD route and pursue academia. While I have a passion for writing and literature, I had to realize that I was never interested in teaching as a career. Though I acknowledge that teaching isn't for me, I don't want to insinuate that there is anything wrong with the career path. What some may find fulfilling, another may hate...it's subjective and purely based on you and what you want out of your career and ultimately out of life. People can have multiple passions, interests, and skills; we are fluid individuals. Sometimes choosing passion is what keeps us going, but a piece of advice I once heard introduced another theoretical potential: to not follow your passion, and instead, find out how you could best use your skills to better serve the world? Again, it all boils down to what you want out of a career and out of your life for your own personal sense of fulfillment.

  As a student, I am passionate and thoroughly enjoy learning and a challenge. This pushes me, but I also found my undergraduate studies to be very easy, and I was frustrated in the classroom setting. The students who surrounded me weren't so dedicated, passionate, and IMHO, didn't foster as intellectual and deep inquisitiveness as I would have liked to be surrounded with. Teaching has never appealed to me for a variety of reasons. Foremost, were students who didn't match my passion. I found my classmates to be lazy and as an instructor, would not appreciate students not all giving a 1,000%. Then from my particular undergraduate institution, my professors were largely overworked and undercompensated. I made it through my entire undergraduate career with hardly any negative/critical feedback from my professors. Honestly, I am not that bright and it should not have been so. I wasn't criticized enough to feel challenged, or to get growth intellectually as I would have liked..,and maybe my college experience is what deterred me from teaching the most, and isn't representative of most people's experiences. However, even when I chose English as a major, I never liked the classroom setting enough to stay in it forever (even in the role of teacher), and had written off teaching from the jump. I reconsidered when I began wondering if law school really was for me. The politics of universities, pressure to remain published/involved in the academic community, the fight for tenure, and the overall repetitiveness of teaching the same thing in and out semester after semester for years on end. After a lot of reflection, I had to acknowledge that my art's studies were very much intertwined with my personality. Moreso than appreciating literature, I appreciate deep, methodical thought, clear communication, constant challenges, and solving puzzles. I also hate repetition. Doing the same thing day in day out would make me feel like a machine, and that would be unfulfilling for me. Even though I am now committed to, and have chosen to pursue a legal career, I am still never 100% certain and I don't think that anyone can be of anything in choosing any career. But I am driven and passionate about prevailing. There are other deeply personal reasons that push me.

  What a lot of people fail to realize is that schools are businesses, first and foremost. They sell knowledge, at a high price tag, with the prospect of career opportunities and high earning potential, with no guarantees. With a major or path, you are sold a dream, an idea that you have made in your mind of some career based on some thought or some glamorization grounded in your perspective. The fact of the matter is that by simply being a student will never really show you what it is like to be in a career. As students, we are mostly living off of a dream, because x career isn't our reality yet. I may be generalizing here, but I will say that of most professions in the world, lawyers are subject to the most stereotypes and generalizations, and falsehooods of what the career is like. The reality remains that you may stick to law school and try being a lawyer only to realize that you hate it. Or, alternatively, you may earn your PhD and teach full time and it gets boring, and you hate it. It is all natural, we are all trying to find our places in the world, for some of us it happens...for others, some get comfortable with their career choices, busy with other aspects of our lives, others later in life wondering what could have been if they chose a different path. A lot of us are operating off of perceptions. The perception of a happier and better life is an ideal. If you need to acknowledge that you don't know enough about law and lawyers that is a good thing, but it should also be noted that not all lawyers have the same experiences, either.

  You need to ask yourself some tough questions. I know that it can be rough to make such a decision. You need to rationalize and figure out what you want. But, are you attached to History studies because it is familiar and you followed a safe course of action without stepping out of your comfort zone? Or are you so in love with your studies, that you would find it fulfilling to spend your days analyzing and teaching history to students, writing about history, and lecturing about history time and time again? Would you enjoy reading hundreds of students papers and giving feedback? Would you enjoy creating curriculum for classes? Are you willing to take a risk? Do you want to be people's advocate? Are you willing to deal with the potential emotional burden of being responsible for someone else's fate/problems? Are you willing to work 14-16 hour days (or even more, like 6-7 days a week) not that this is all new lawyer's realities, but is a possibility, is it worth the risk? Are you willing to make an average salary for a few years out? Do you trust your intuition and have sound judgment? Do you have a high stress tolerance? These are some questions, and I'd anticipate, without adequate knowledge of the legal profession, you wouldn't be able to even know what to contemplate. I'd advise you to maybe try and intern at a law firm if you are able, or if you'd rather and are willing to get a paralegal certificate and look for a job thereafter just to better test the waters before making the big leap into law school. Or, you could commit to your LSAT studies, and try to go to law school if you hate it after the first semester, you can leave...and you certainly can recover from a semester's worth of tuition, LSAC fees, etc. if it means at least knowing that law was or wasn't for you. Sometimes we need to do things, maybe even take the wrong turn in life, just to know what is/what does feel right for us, and what doesn't.

  The decision to go to law school should not be an easy one and should not be taken lightly. It is a huge emotional and financial investment. Law school itself is unlike any other form of schooling you have experienced before. Most students don't make it through the first year, probably, because they underestimate the undertaking. The legal career isn't always glamorous, and there certainly isn't any guarantee of high earning potential. You have to be willing to bite the bullet and take the risk, even if its a long journey to figure out what's not for you. Or, you could go, and love it, and find a way of how history and the skills you have gained as a history student, intersect with the law (society & life, cause/effect, analytical skills, etc.). IMHO, you should want it enough to be willing to take the financial risk (or rather, burden) and the huge emotional investment (dedicating your entire life to law school for 3 years--- as will inevitably happen and it will be challenging for many reasons). Even if you are not fully certain, you need to be certain enough to be committed, and it would definitely help to be knowledgeable of the realities associated with everything from the schooling to the career. The prospect of insurmountable debt is a huge thing to consider. Some people give up after the schooling having attempted the BAR multiple times, to each time fail, and choose entirely different careers altogether. Some finish law school and end up enrolled in a PhD program thereafter. It's your life after all, you have to live with the consequences of your decisions, but that goes for everything in life. The biggest consideration you should make is to what makes law appealing to you, other than the prospect of financial gain?

  I obviously cannot speak for everyone, as everyone has different motives for going to law school. Your reason for going will be tested if you choose to start. It has to be solid enough for you to prevail through and stay there until the finish line. 'Passion for the law' I mean, there's legal theory, whereas a PhD in PoliSci may or may not better cater to such an individual with such passion. A more apt consideration may be--- are you interested in legal theory or actually practicing law? Is the prospect of earning more money enough to keep you going? Personally, I am passionate about being an advocate for people.

  The actual legal profession is nothing like you see in movies or on television, as the media is a glamorization, and also works of fiction literature. There are many generalizations and stereotypes so rampant in our society about lawyers, it's hard to distinguish a more realistic objective perspective from a subjective one. One of them being the high earning potential. Sure, some lawyers make a high salary, but not all, and for some, can go entire careers with relatively low salaries. Do you have other reasons for wanting to go? Or do you not know enough about the legal field to write law school off just yet? Or, is it that you really want to teach history as to why you are able to attest to why you would want to choose such path?

  There's nothing wrong with wondering. There is nothing wrong with confusion. I personally, was 'uncertain' of the major I'd chosen in college even past my graduation day...but that's me...I am never certain because I am a very fearful person, and want to know that I am making a good decision...but how can we ever really know? In order to commit to a path, I had to self-reflect and acknowledge what inhibitions were holding me back, and even still, though now committed to conquering the LSATs and going to law school, 100% certainty is not something I strive for, but I am willing to take the risk. It took me three years of self-reflection, tears, confusion, depression, and anxiety to get to such point of commitment. Ultimately, the best advise that I can give you is that you have to take some time to know yourself to see what you would want. Internet articles can't dictate everything in telling you what to do with your life. Other people cannot dictate and tell you what to do with your life. You have to find a risk worth making, and give your all...be willing to fail and to flutter, with hopes of landing back on your feet. There's no promise in tomorrow, and there's no guarantee in anything. Find out what drives your passion and let it motivate you to commit fully to whatever path you want to take (or to at least attempt). It is perfectly normal to be uncertain and be confused, and I hope that I could help you. Feel free to message me if you'd like. Good luck with your decision, I know that it can be a rough decision (or at least it was for me).
• 1 Like

  StellaBlue Alum Member

  May 2017 185 karma

  This is an awesome thread. Fellow History degree-holder here; hi!

  I think it's important to consider that people can find a reason to be negative about any career path. While it's definitely smart to be realistic and to create opportunities for yourself, using other peoples' reactions as a barometer is always going to bum you out. I've taken an almost laughably nontraditional path since undergrad (I worked for a conservation organization where my job was to manage hostels on top of mountains and hike in all the food we served to the guests on my back, and then I moved to a National Park and ended up having to shoot paintball guns at bears?? But I digress), and even though it was all in service of following my passion, even my most sympathetic friends thought I was crazy. At the end of the day, all that matters is that YOU are achieving (or setting yourself up to achieve) by your OWN standards. It's really, really hard, but I promise you, it's worth it.

  I've been thinking of law school in these terms: My best friend was accepted to Journalism school at Columbia. She was pretty on the fence about the financials, and ended up doing a lot of informational interviews with journalists and former J-school students. One woman told her: "Do not go to J-school unless your heart aches for it and you can't see yourself doing anything else." For me, that's becoming fluent in the law. For you, that very well could be teaching history, or researching, or becoming the next Sarah Vowell. And that is really freakin' cool!

  Anyway. Long, discursive post. I'm wishing you the best, and am so interested to hear what you decide. Best of luck!
• kH573201 Alum Member

  May 2017 115 karma

  Hey guys!
  I've been away from my computer, but I wanted to say thanks to everyone that posted. I really appreciate the feedback! Enjoy the holiday weekend everyone!
• Alex Alum Member ⭐

  May 2017 23929 karma

  @kH573201 said:
  Hey guys!
  I've been away from my computer, but I wanted to say thanks to everyone that posted. I really appreciate the feedback! Enjoy the holiday weekend everyone!

  Enjoy your holiday weekend and I hope all the info has made your decision a least a bit easer

  All the best