"Even If" Statement in Conjunction with Conditional

Comments

• vanessa fisher Alum Member

  July 2017 edited July 2017 1084 karma

  Haven't looked at the specific question, but from my look at your example, I'd
• vanessa fisher Alum Member

  July 2017 1084 karma

  sorry was editing response to this and accidently deleted!
  have to run out the door but maybe someone else can pick up on the answer
• 1 Like

  danielznelson Alum Inactive Sage Inactive ⭐

  July 2017 4181 karma

  @bswise2 You've answered your own question, and correctly. I consider "even if" to be logically irrelevant but not topically irrelevant. So while it may be important to note whether you go to the mall or not, it doesn't change the fact that no matter what, "you will not reward yourself with ice cream."
• 1 Like

  Mellow_Z Alum Member

  July 2017 1997 karma

  @danielznelson said:
  @bswise2 You've answered your own question, and correctly. I consider "even if" to be logically irrelevant but not topically irrelevant. So while it may be important to note whether you go to the mall or not, it doesn't change the fact that no matter what, "you will not reward yourself with ice cream."

  What would you do (this is hypothetical), if you were given the conditions that bswise mentioned, and then you got another line that said "I went to the market".

  You would have the sufficient conditions both met (go to mall, and go to market), which should warrant getting ice cream, but the "Even if I go to the mall, I will not reward myself with ice cream." line really jacks it up.

  I have a feeling this is not a realistic possibility to see on the LSAT so we shouldn't worry about it, but I also have no idea what I'd do in that situation, so it's worth asking imo.
• 1 Like

  danielznelson Alum Inactive Sage Inactive ⭐

  July 2017 4181 karma

  Oh wow. Yeah, I definitely only answered a snippet of the actual question.

  Just to make sure you're all on the same page as I am (I admit I may make that quite difficult!), I was really only answering the logical relevance of "even if" on its own. So if you alone have a statement like, "Even if I go to the mall, I will not reward myself with ice cream," you will not reward yourself with ice cream whether or not you go to the mall. So logically, "even if" in this case does nothing.

  So as to your greater question, I still think you're right. "Even if" can be left out of that statement, so you're left with "I will not reward myself with ice cream," as you noted. This negates the necessary condition of the original statement, which would force us to state you will not go to the market, if you DO go to the mall. Though I do think that if you do not go to the mall, then I don't think you can state whether you went to the market or not, as you could in that case go to the market without triggering the necessary condition of rewarding yourself with ice cream.
• Mellow_Z Alum Member

  July 2017 1997 karma

  @danielznelson awesome write up. Thanks for taking the time to circle back around
• Sarah889 Alum Member

  July 2017 877 karma

  Thank you @danielznelson and @Mellow_Z for the discussion! It's an interesting perspective to look at the logic of the English language from. Like @danielznelson pointed out, I guess the only inference you could logically make is "If I go to the mall, then I will not go to the market."

  So saying that "I will not go to the market" is not a necessary inference, correct?
• RyanCoulter Member

  July 2017 21 karma

  So saying that "I will not go to the market" is not a necessary inference, correct?

  I would agree, as others have said "even if" isn't really saying anything. "Even if" is just a hypothetical that strengthens the original statement.

  Logically I would represent the "Even if I go to the mall, I will not reward myself with ice cream.", as: /RwIC + Mall* (* meaning true or false)
• RyanCoulter Member

  July 2017 21 karma

  @danielznelson @Mellow_Z

  "If I go to the market and go to the mall, then I will reward myself with ice cream."
  "Even if I go to the mall, I will not reward myself with ice cream."
  "I went to the market".

  My take on this would be that (in light of the LSAT) you have to take all the premises to be true. Since "go to the mall" is the only thing that's up in the air (Market + /RwIC), in order to not contradict the stimulus you would have to interpret "even if I go to the mall" as NOT going to the mall.

  Unless an answer choice mentioned the possibility of a contradiction occurring.
• Mellow_Z Alum Member

  July 2017 edited July 2017 1997 karma

  @RyanCoulter said:
  @danielznelson @Mellow_Z

  .

  Which one of the following, if true, most helps to resolve the apparent paradox?

  A. You are on drugs because who wouldn't reward themselves with ice cream after having to bear the burden of actually going to the mall instead of ordering everything online.
  B.
  C.
  D.
  E.

  I'm circling A and moving on.

  I agree through, Ryan. I think there would have to be considerable attention drawn to the potential conflict/contradiction in logic. I can't recall a question that appears like this, but I would find it hard to convince myself to not believe that "Even if I go to the mall, I will not reward myself with ice cream." would warrant anything other than concluding you don't go to the market.