Two PTs a day?

Disha Mehta · August 2017

Hi, I'm aiming for September, 2017, and I'm lagging behind on my PTs. Would it be a good idea for me to start taking two PTs a day? (I'm currently taking one everyday.)

Alex · August 2017

Hey @"Disha Mehta"

Your work ethic and dedication to this test are nothing short of inspiring! However, the idea of taking a 2 PTs a day, or even 1 a day, is the manifestation of a critical misunderstanding of the purpose of practice tests. I think naturally a lot of us may think that PTs are the key to getting a higher score, but....

Practice tests are really great for gauging our improvements and showing us where we still need improvements. They aren't however really great for achieving those improvements. Improvement comes when we take the weaknesses from each PT and address them via review, drilling, and timed sections. Improvements also come through very thorough BR. If you're scoring below the mid-170s range, you should probably be spending a great deal of time on blind review. Sitting there for hours and hours going through the sections untimed is probably where I've seen most of my improvements after hitting the 160-164 range. Last, it's probably also important to know that doing that amount of PTs will be at the best useless and at the worst harmful if you aren't doing what you can to improve in between them. You're wasting tons of time and material by taking PTs that frequently. I can assure you that your energy and mental focus will be better spent on examining why you're not scoring perfectly on every section and doing everything you can to practice making sure you don't make the same mistakes again.

PTs are like a juicy orange and you want to do everything you can to squeeze out every drop of usefulness they have. There's just no way to get all you can from a PT by doing them that frequently.

If you're set on September, and behind on your PT schedule, you could postpone until a later date, or you can re-adjust your plan. Regardless of whatever option you choose doing 1-2 PTs a day isn't going to help you get to where you want to be. I would rather take this test having mastered all of the questions from PTs 72-81 rather than rush to get 20 other PTs done by the test.

Hope this helps!

Disha Mehta · August 2017

@"Alex Divine" said:
Hey @"Disha Mehta"

Your work ethic and dedication to this test are nothing short of inspiring! However, the idea of taking a 2 PTs a day, or even 1 a day, is the manifestation of a critical misunderstanding of the purpose of practice tests. I think naturally a lot of us may think that PTs are the key to getting a higher score, but....

Practice tests are really great for gauging our improvements and showing us where we still need improvements. They aren't however really great for achieving those improvements. Improvement comes when we take the weaknesses from each PT and address them via review, drilling, and timed sections. Improvements also come through very thorough BR. If you're scoring below the mid-170s range, you should probably be spending a great deal of time on blind review. Sitting there for hours and hours going through the sections untimed is probably where I've seen most of my improvements after hitting the 160-164 range. Last, it's probably also important to know that doing that amount of PTs will be at the best useless and at the worst harmful if you aren't doing what you can to improve in between them. You're wasting tons of time and material by taking PTs that frequently. I can assure you that your energy and mental focus will be better spent on examining why you're not scoring perfectly on every section and doing everything you can to practice making sure you don't make the same mistakes again.

PTs are like a juicy orange and you want to do everything you can to squeeze out every drop of usefulness they have. There's just no way to get all you can from a PT by doing them that frequently.

If you're set on September, and behind on your PT schedule, you could postpone until a later date, or you can re-adjust your plan. Regardless of whatever option you choose doing 1-2 PTs a day isn't going to help you get to where you want to be. I would rather take this test having mastered all of the questions from PTs 72-81 rather than rush to get 20 other PTs done by the test.

Hope this helps!

Hey @"Alex Divine", thanks a lot! I see your point and I'll revise my schedule accordingly. I'm not in the position to postpone my date, so I'll have to make this one count. Am I missing out on a lot if I can't take all the PTs? I'll make sure I do PTs 72-81 thoroughly.

Alex · August 2017

@"Disha Mehta" said:

@"Alex Divine" said:
Hey @"Disha Mehta"

Your work ethic and dedication to this test are nothing short of inspiring! However, the idea of taking a 2 PTs a day, or even 1 a day, is the manifestation of a critical misunderstanding of the purpose of practice tests. I think naturally a lot of us may think that PTs are the key to getting a higher score, but....

Practice tests are really great for gauging our improvements and showing us where we still need improvements. They aren't however really great for achieving those improvements. Improvement comes when we take the weaknesses from each PT and address them via review, drilling, and timed sections. Improvements also come through very thorough BR. If you're scoring below the mid-170s range, you should probably be spending a great deal of time on blind review. Sitting there for hours and hours going through the sections untimed is probably where I've seen most of my improvements after hitting the 160-164 range. Last, it's probably also important to know that doing that amount of PTs will be at the best useless and at the worst harmful if you aren't doing what you can to improve in between them. You're wasting tons of time and material by taking PTs that frequently. I can assure you that your energy and mental focus will be better spent on examining why you're not scoring perfectly on every section and doing everything you can to practice making sure you don't make the same mistakes again.

PTs are like a juicy orange and you want to do everything you can to squeeze out every drop of usefulness they have. There's just no way to get all you can from a PT by doing them that frequently.

If you're set on September, and behind on your PT schedule, you could postpone until a later date, or you can re-adjust your plan. Regardless of whatever option you choose doing 1-2 PTs a day isn't going to help you get to where you want to be. I would rather take this test having mastered all of the questions from PTs 72-81 rather than rush to get 20 other PTs done by the test.

Hope this helps!

Hey @"Alex Divine", thanks a lot! I see your point and I'll revise my schedule accordingly. I'm not in the position to postpone my date, so I'll have to make this one count. Am I missing out on a lot if I can't take all the PTs? I'll make sure I do PTs 72-81 thoroughly.

Glad to hear that! I've gone down that same road and I'm glad the helpful folks here intervened before it was too late.

There's always going to be material we miss out on if we don't do all of the tests. Generally I think that's ok. What's more important is getting our scores consistently where they need to be.

Where are you scoring and how far off are you from your goal?

TheMikey · August 2017

don't do it, that will be your first class ticket to burn out.

I'm lagging behind on PT's as well, but it's better to just fit in a decent amount so you can BR them as well and also take time off between each to avoid burn out. I'd rather have left over PT's than be burnt out.

Cant Get Right · August 2017

Just to reinforce @"Alex Divine" and @TheMikey 's comments , even one PT a day is WAY too much. You're exposing yourself to a lot of material, but you can't actually learn from it at that pace. Let me guess: Your PT scores fluctuate around a very consistent (and very stalled) average? I would be shocked if it was improving on any meaningful metric. If I'm right, then you've got to ask yourself what returns you've gotten on taking all these PTs, and what the purpose of taking further ones is. The data doesn't lie, and if it says you're not improving, then what you're doing isn't working. To use my example to provide some context for that, I scored a 170 on the Sept 2016 test and my last PT was a 180 (-2, repeat). Far from feeling ready to jump into a new PT, I'm focussing on the critical error (rule mistranslation) I made in LG that accounted for the -2. I can't necessarily count on -0 LR & RC on test day and it's a miracle that that error only cost me -2 on that game. After spending the entire week drilling LG form and procedure, I might feel comfortable PTing at some point this upcoming week. The point is, I made a mistake and until I feel like I have corrected that mistake and can never make it again, I'm not taking another PT. There's no point if I haven't learned from my past mistakes. That's the process that got me to where I am, and that's the process that will move you forward.

AllezAllez21 · August 2017

Most everything insightful has already been said.

I think 2 PTs per WEEK is about the max you should be doing.

Disha Mehta · August 2017

@"Cant Get Right" said:
Just to reinforce @"Alex Divine" and @TheMikey 's comments , even one PT a day is WAY too much. You're exposing yourself to a lot of material, but you can't actually learn from it at that pace. Let me guess: Your PT scores fluctuate around a very consistent (and very stalled) average? I would be shocked if it was improving on any meaningful metric. If I'm right, then you've got to ask yourself what returns you've gotten on taking all these PTs, and what the purpose of taking further ones is. The data doesn't lie, and if it says you're not improving, then what you're doing isn't working. To use my example to provide some context for that, I scored a 170 on the Sept 2016 test and my last PT was a 180 (-2, repeat). Far from feeling ready to jump into a new PT, I'm focussing on the critical error (rule mistranslation) I made in LG that accounted for the -2. I can't necessarily count on -0 LR & RC on test day and it's a miracle that that error only cost me -2 on that game. After spending the entire week drilling LG form and procedure, I might feel comfortable PTing at some point this upcoming week. The point is, I made a mistake and until I feel like I have corrected that mistake and can never make it again, I'm not taking another PT. There's no point if I haven't learned from my past mistakes. That's the process that got me to where I am, and that's the process that will move you forward.

"Your PT scores fluctuate around a very consistent (and very stalled) average?" Yes, they do. I'm going to use your strategy and try to improve. Great example. Thanks a lot!

Disha Mehta · August 2017

@"Alex Divine" said:

@"Disha Mehta" said:

@"Alex Divine" said:
Hey @"Disha Mehta"

Your work ethic and dedication to this test are nothing short of inspiring! However, the idea of taking a 2 PTs a day, or even 1 a day, is the manifestation of a critical misunderstanding of the purpose of practice tests. I think naturally a lot of us may think that PTs are the key to getting a higher score, but....

Practice tests are really great for gauging our improvements and showing us where we still need improvements. They aren't however really great for achieving those improvements. Improvement comes when we take the weaknesses from each PT and address them via review, drilling, and timed sections. Improvements also come through very thorough BR. If you're scoring below the mid-170s range, you should probably be spending a great deal of time on blind review. Sitting there for hours and hours going through the sections untimed is probably where I've seen most of my improvements after hitting the 160-164 range. Last, it's probably also important to know that doing that amount of PTs will be at the best useless and at the worst harmful if you aren't doing what you can to improve in between them. You're wasting tons of time and material by taking PTs that frequently. I can assure you that your energy and mental focus will be better spent on examining why you're not scoring perfectly on every section and doing everything you can to practice making sure you don't make the same mistakes again.

PTs are like a juicy orange and you want to do everything you can to squeeze out every drop of usefulness they have. There's just no way to get all you can from a PT by doing them that frequently.

If you're set on September, and behind on your PT schedule, you could postpone until a later date, or you can re-adjust your plan. Regardless of whatever option you choose doing 1-2 PTs a day isn't going to help you get to where you want to be. I would rather take this test having mastered all of the questions from PTs 72-81 rather than rush to get 20 other PTs done by the test.

Hope this helps!

Hey @"Alex Divine", thanks a lot! I see your point and I'll revise my schedule accordingly. I'm not in the position to postpone my date, so I'll have to make this one count. Am I missing out on a lot if I can't take all the PTs? I'll make sure I do PTs 72-81 thoroughly.

Glad to hear that! I've gone down that same road and I'm glad the helpful folks here intervened before it was too late.

There's always going to be material we miss out on if we don't do all of the tests. Generally I think that's ok. What's more important is getting our scores consistently where they need to be.

Where are you scoring and how far off are you from your goal?

My last score was 157, BR 169 (I was surprised to see such a big difference between these two scores). I goal is to reach 170. Is that unrealistic (in my case)?

PS: Took your advice, didn't take a test and just worked on some LR questions I've been having problems with. I feel much better. Thanks a lot!

AllezAllez21 · August 2017

I think improving from 159 to 170 in less than three weeks is unrealistic.

It takes a couple weeks to really internalize any new information.

You should strongly consider delaying your test.

Alex · August 2017

@"Disha Mehta" said:

@"Alex Divine" said:

@"Disha Mehta" said:

@"Alex Divine" said:
Hey @"Disha Mehta"

Your work ethic and dedication to this test are nothing short of inspiring! However, the idea of taking a 2 PTs a day, or even 1 a day, is the manifestation of a critical misunderstanding of the purpose of practice tests. I think naturally a lot of us may think that PTs are the key to getting a higher score, but....

Practice tests are really great for gauging our improvements and showing us where we still need improvements. They aren't however really great for achieving those improvements. Improvement comes when we take the weaknesses from each PT and address them via review, drilling, and timed sections. Improvements also come through very thorough BR. If you're scoring below the mid-170s range, you should probably be spending a great deal of time on blind review. Sitting there for hours and hours going through the sections untimed is probably where I've seen most of my improvements after hitting the 160-164 range. Last, it's probably also important to know that doing that amount of PTs will be at the best useless and at the worst harmful if you aren't doing what you can to improve in between them. You're wasting tons of time and material by taking PTs that frequently. I can assure you that your energy and mental focus will be better spent on examining why you're not scoring perfectly on every section and doing everything you can to practice making sure you don't make the same mistakes again.

PTs are like a juicy orange and you want to do everything you can to squeeze out every drop of usefulness they have. There's just no way to get all you can from a PT by doing them that frequently.

If you're set on September, and behind on your PT schedule, you could postpone until a later date, or you can re-adjust your plan. Regardless of whatever option you choose doing 1-2 PTs a day isn't going to help you get to where you want to be. I would rather take this test having mastered all of the questions from PTs 72-81 rather than rush to get 20 other PTs done by the test.

Hope this helps!

Hey @"Alex Divine", thanks a lot! I see your point and I'll revise my schedule accordingly. I'm not in the position to postpone my date, so I'll have to make this one count. Am I missing out on a lot if I can't take all the PTs? I'll make sure I do PTs 72-81 thoroughly.

Glad to hear that! I've gone down that same road and I'm glad the helpful folks here intervened before it was too late.

There's always going to be material we miss out on if we don't do all of the tests. Generally I think that's ok. What's more important is getting our scores consistently where they need to be.

Where are you scoring and how far off are you from your goal?

My last score was 157, BR 169 (I was surprised to see such a big difference between these two scores). I goal is to reach 170. Is that unrealistic (in my case)?

PS: Took your advice, didn't take a test and just worked on some LR questions I've been having problems with. I feel much better. Thanks a lot!

Awesome! Great job a 169 BR score definitely means you have tons of room for improvement. I'm a true believer that you can score whatever BR score you can achieve with enough practice. That said, I don't think going from a 157 to a 170 in 20 days is a very feasible goal. I find that most people plateau right around 164-165 range and then have to do an extensive amount of work to develop the skills to then push into the 170s. A 157 means you're getting about 33 question wrong per test. A 170 is closer to 10. And not all points or score increases are created equally. Right now you have the opportunity to still grab a few "easy points." These are points you can get just by fool proofing logic games or increasing your conditional logic prowess. Heck, if you haven't already implemented a skipping strategy, that may also give you a 1-2 point increase. However, once you get to about a 165 there are no more "easy points." Going from a 165 to a 170 is exponentially harder than going from a 155 to a 165 for this reason.

I think if you take in September you're probably like to score where you are now, maybe a couple of points higher. If you're not happy with a score in the range of, say, 155-160, then I wouldn't sit for the test.

A good LSAT score is worth hundreds of thousands of dollars. You'll get into a better school, make more money than your peers (on average) and enjoy less debt due to scholarship offers. I believe someone calculated that each point on the LSAT is worth about $17,000. If you're as driven by money as I am you can see that however long it takes, it's worth it to do everything in your power to score that 170+

Disha Mehta · August 2017

@AllezAllez21 said:
I think improving from 159 to 170 in less than three weeks is unrealistic.

It takes a couple weeks to really internalize any new information.

You should strongly consider delaying your test.

Wouldn't it be too late to apply then? I'm looking to apply in Australia/ Canada.

Disha Mehta · August 2017

@"Alex Divine" said:

@"Disha Mehta" said:

@"Alex Divine" said:

@"Disha Mehta" said:

@"Alex Divine" said:
Hey @"Disha Mehta"

Your work ethic and dedication to this test are nothing short of inspiring! However, the idea of taking a 2 PTs a day, or even 1 a day, is the manifestation of a critical misunderstanding of the purpose of practice tests. I think naturally a lot of us may think that PTs are the key to getting a higher score, but....

Practice tests are really great for gauging our improvements and showing us where we still need improvements. They aren't however really great for achieving those improvements. Improvement comes when we take the weaknesses from each PT and address them via review, drilling, and timed sections. Improvements also come through very thorough BR. If you're scoring below the mid-170s range, you should probably be spending a great deal of time on blind review. Sitting there for hours and hours going through the sections untimed is probably where I've seen most of my improvements after hitting the 160-164 range. Last, it's probably also important to know that doing that amount of PTs will be at the best useless and at the worst harmful if you aren't doing what you can to improve in between them. You're wasting tons of time and material by taking PTs that frequently. I can assure you that your energy and mental focus will be better spent on examining why you're not scoring perfectly on every section and doing everything you can to practice making sure you don't make the same mistakes again.

PTs are like a juicy orange and you want to do everything you can to squeeze out every drop of usefulness they have. There's just no way to get all you can from a PT by doing them that frequently.

If you're set on September, and behind on your PT schedule, you could postpone until a later date, or you can re-adjust your plan. Regardless of whatever option you choose doing 1-2 PTs a day isn't going to help you get to where you want to be. I would rather take this test having mastered all of the questions from PTs 72-81 rather than rush to get 20 other PTs done by the test.

Hope this helps!

Hey @"Alex Divine", thanks a lot! I see your point and I'll revise my schedule accordingly. I'm not in the position to postpone my date, so I'll have to make this one count. Am I missing out on a lot if I can't take all the PTs? I'll make sure I do PTs 72-81 thoroughly.

Glad to hear that! I've gone down that same road and I'm glad the helpful folks here intervened before it was too late.

There's always going to be material we miss out on if we don't do all of the tests. Generally I think that's ok. What's more important is getting our scores consistently where they need to be.

Where are you scoring and how far off are you from your goal?

My last score was 157, BR 169 (I was surprised to see such a big difference between these two scores). I goal is to reach 170. Is that unrealistic (in my case)?

PS: Took your advice, didn't take a test and just worked on some LR questions I've been having problems with. I feel much better. Thanks a lot!

Awesome! Great job a 169 BR score definitely means you have tons of room for improvement. I'm a true believer that you can score whatever BR score you can achieve with enough practice. That said, I don't think going from a 157 to a 170 in 20 days is a very feasible goal. I find that most people plateau right around 164-165 range and then have to do an extensive amount of work to develop the skills to then push into the 170s. A 157 means you're getting about 33 question wrong per test. A 170 is closer to 10. And not all points or score increases are created equally. Right now you have the opportunity to still grab a few "easy points." These are points you can get just by fool proofing logic games or increasing your conditional logic prowess. Heck, if you haven't already implemented a skipping strategy, that may also give you a 1-2 point increase. However, once you get to about a 165 there are no more "easy points." Going from a 165 to a 170 is exponentially harder than going from a 155 to a 165 for this reason.

I think if you take in September you're probably like to score where you are now, maybe a couple of points higher. If you're not happy with a score in the range of, say, 155-160, then I wouldn't sit for the test.

A good LSAT score is worth hundreds of thousands of dollars. You'll get into a better school, make more money than your peers (on average) and enjoy less debt due to scholarship offers. I believe someone calculated that each point on the LSAT is worth about $17,000. If you're as driven by money as I am you can see that however long it takes, it's worth it to do everything in your power to score that 170+

I feel a little disheartened and might consider delaying my test. But two things: (i) I would be applying to Canada/ Australia as an international student. Will I need a 170+ LSAT score for the top law schools there? (ii) Will I be too late in sending applications, if I take the December LSAT? I have already taken a gap year for this and wouldn't like to delay it any further.

Alex · August 2017

@"Disha Mehta" said:

@"Alex Divine" said:

@"Disha Mehta" said:

@"Alex Divine" said:

@"Disha Mehta" said:

@"Alex Divine" said:
Hey @"Disha Mehta"

Your work ethic and dedication to this test are nothing short of inspiring! However, the idea of taking a 2 PTs a day, or even 1 a day, is the manifestation of a critical misunderstanding of the purpose of practice tests. I think naturally a lot of us may think that PTs are the key to getting a higher score, but....

Practice tests are really great for gauging our improvements and showing us where we still need improvements. They aren't however really great for achieving those improvements. Improvement comes when we take the weaknesses from each PT and address them via review, drilling, and timed sections. Improvements also come through very thorough BR. If you're scoring below the mid-170s range, you should probably be spending a great deal of time on blind review. Sitting there for hours and hours going through the sections untimed is probably where I've seen most of my improvements after hitting the 160-164 range. Last, it's probably also important to know that doing that amount of PTs will be at the best useless and at the worst harmful if you aren't doing what you can to improve in between them. You're wasting tons of time and material by taking PTs that frequently. I can assure you that your energy and mental focus will be better spent on examining why you're not scoring perfectly on every section and doing everything you can to practice making sure you don't make the same mistakes again.

PTs are like a juicy orange and you want to do everything you can to squeeze out every drop of usefulness they have. There's just no way to get all you can from a PT by doing them that frequently.

If you're set on September, and behind on your PT schedule, you could postpone until a later date, or you can re-adjust your plan. Regardless of whatever option you choose doing 1-2 PTs a day isn't going to help you get to where you want to be. I would rather take this test having mastered all of the questions from PTs 72-81 rather than rush to get 20 other PTs done by the test.

Hope this helps!

Hey @"Alex Divine", thanks a lot! I see your point and I'll revise my schedule accordingly. I'm not in the position to postpone my date, so I'll have to make this one count. Am I missing out on a lot if I can't take all the PTs? I'll make sure I do PTs 72-81 thoroughly.

Glad to hear that! I've gone down that same road and I'm glad the helpful folks here intervened before it was too late.

There's always going to be material we miss out on if we don't do all of the tests. Generally I think that's ok. What's more important is getting our scores consistently where they need to be.

Where are you scoring and how far off are you from your goal?

My last score was 157, BR 169 (I was surprised to see such a big difference between these two scores). I goal is to reach 170. Is that unrealistic (in my case)?

PS: Took your advice, didn't take a test and just worked on some LR questions I've been having problems with. I feel much better. Thanks a lot!

Awesome! Great job a 169 BR score definitely means you have tons of room for improvement. I'm a true believer that you can score whatever BR score you can achieve with enough practice. That said, I don't think going from a 157 to a 170 in 20 days is a very feasible goal. I find that most people plateau right around 164-165 range and then have to do an extensive amount of work to develop the skills to then push into the 170s. A 157 means you're getting about 33 question wrong per test. A 170 is closer to 10. And not all points or score increases are created equally. Right now you have the opportunity to still grab a few "easy points." These are points you can get just by fool proofing logic games or increasing your conditional logic prowess. Heck, if you haven't already implemented a skipping strategy, that may also give you a 1-2 point increase. However, once you get to about a 165 there are no more "easy points." Going from a 165 to a 170 is exponentially harder than going from a 155 to a 165 for this reason.

I think if you take in September you're probably like to score where you are now, maybe a couple of points higher. If you're not happy with a score in the range of, say, 155-160, then I wouldn't sit for the test.

A good LSAT score is worth hundreds of thousands of dollars. You'll get into a better school, make more money than your peers (on average) and enjoy less debt due to scholarship offers. I believe someone calculated that each point on the LSAT is worth about $17,000. If you're as driven by money as I am you can see that however long it takes, it's worth it to do everything in your power to score that 170+

I feel a little disheartened and might consider delaying my test. But two things: (i) I would be applying to Canada/ Australia as an international student. Will I need a 170+ LSAT score for the top law schools there? (ii) Will I be too late in sending applications, if I take the December LSAT? I have already taken a gap year for this and wouldn't like to delay it any further.

I actually know fairly little about Canadian/Australian deadlines for LS applicants. No, you don't need a 170 to get into a top school in either Canada or Australia. I think mid 160s is generally good enough for most Canadian/Australian schools.

Here's some info on Canadian Law school medians: http://www.oxfordseminars.ca/LSAT/lsat_profiles.php

It looks like depending on your GPA, you'll want to hit a 166 or so to be safe. It looks like with that LSAT and a 3.7+ GPA you'll have a shot at just about everywhere! I think a 166 may very well be possible by December if you work hard. No one likes waiting another cycle, but in the long run I'm sure it's worth it.

Paul Caint · August 2017

2 PrepTests in one day = bad idea imo.

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