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Advice on application timing? Send in December, or January after LSAT results?
Leah M B
Alum Member ⭐
I had a strategy for when to submit my applications but I'm kind of questioning it right now. So would love advice from anyone out there!
The situation: I just took December LSAT and it's my first official test. I was planning on submitting applications by mid-December so that they are received before the holiday break and would hopefully get faster/earlier decisions once the LSAT score comes through. However, I don't feel awful about my performance but also not great. I was PTing pretty consistently around 167 but I think my score is probably going to be closer to 165. I was hoping for a lucky break and it to swing a bit higher and be closer to 170 but I don't think that's the way it's going to go.
That said, at 164/165 I feel pretty good about safety schools and my middle-of-the-road target ones, but for any stretch schools I would probably need to be at least 167. So with that information, do y'all think I should wait on submitting any of my applications? Maybe I should submit now for safety/target, and wait until score comes back before submitting for stretch schools? Basically, I don't want to waste application money (or unnecessary rejection) if my score comes in at 164 and a school's 25th or median is 167. Just for context, my GPA is 3.85 so I should be ok on that side. Really going to hinge on the LSAT performance. Thoughts?
- When should I send in my applications?58 votes
- Send them all in December - YOLO24.14%
- Send in safety/target in December, and stretch schools after LSAT results44.83%
- Wait on them all, applying in January doesn't make much difference31.03%
Comments
Hey Leah!
I think it's a pretty difficult question to answer with ones own criteria, specially 0Ls like myself who have no experience with the application process. However, there is data* on the internet that suggests the earlier an application is sent, the greater the chances of being accepted. There's also a great blog by Mike Spivey, a professional law school consultant, that details the applications cycle timeline, which can vary from school to school:
http://blog.spiveyconsulting.com/podcast-when-is-it-early-when-is-it-late-in-the-admissions-cycle/
additionally, in all of the internet's infinite wisdom, the general consensus seems to be the following:
Application sent before Thanksgiving: early
Application sent before Christmas: on time
Application sent after Christmas: you're cutting it close, sister!
TL;DR: I would send it now!
Best of luck!
*you can verify the data on mylsn.info, just plug in your numbers and play around with the months you're considering sending your applications on!
Im sending apps this month for schools that will allow my app to be reviewed with my previous score. It seems its standard policy for schools to hold off reviewing your apps until after December scores post.
I would recommend sending them in as soon as you can regardless of whether or not you have a possible pending February score. Source: advice from my law school admissions consultant who encouraged me to turn in my applications ASAP despite having a September score in the bank with a pending December score.
Keep in mind that they will know, come January, if you plan to retake in February (LSAC records will show that) and, if you have submitted an application, they will likely prompt you to either give them the go-ahead to review based on your December score or to postpone until February. Either course of action, having turned in your application earlier (before Christmas) will put you closer to the top of the pile for that round of December/February piles, whichever you opt for. So you can make this decision to submit now without knowing your December score. However, when January comes, you will have to commit to either applying with your December score or asking them to hold your application until February. Some schools (like UF, for example) may also do preliminary reviews of completed applications with pending scores because they want to get a feel of their pool.
Overall, putting in earlier applications looks good. It shows that you're on top of things and puts you earlier in the pool.
When it comes to going with a December versus a February score, what statistics generally show (and of course, this differs depending on the school), is that you'd probably have to do markedly better on February to offset that late-in-the-season application given two applications to the same school.
If you're committed to taking in February and you really want to get into one of those big schools, I would possibly recommend a mixed approach. First, submit all of your applications as soon as you are able regardless. Then, come January, let's say you get a mid-160s score, so then ask those schools that you'll definitely get into with that score to review your app with your December LSAT. But for those harder 170+ schools (that you're pretty sure you won't get into with a 165--and there is some grey area here), tell them to hold your application until your February score, and really knock the February test out of the park. Again, you run the risk of applying really late and you may not get the score you want, but you at least give yourself another shot at hitting their median.
Sorry for the novel.
Just my two cents!
PS: I think we're really similar with our scores. I am probably looking at a 165 too, and while my dream schools are 167 (UCB and UT), I am also really, really excited about my more on-target 163 schools (UCD and UCI). I guess I'm saying this to say that, no matter what, you're going to get into a really awesome school that you'll love.
There's really no objectively right answer here. If you're not planning on sitting for Feb regardless, I would send them in ASAP -- all of them -- and get them in before the holidays. Right around the holidays, admissions offices experience a deluge of apps and many are closed the week of Christmas through New Years. You'll almost certainly be better off getting your apps in before that, even if it means applying without knowing your score.
Either way, it's a risk and you may end up spending money on some schools where you end up below the median LSAT. However, your GPA is strong, and if you end up doing well and scoring in the 167+ range, you'll be kicking yourself for not getting your apps in sooner.
Best of luck!
i agree with Nicolas!
I sent in a couple of apps with an old score as soon as they opened. I got into my first choice the day before last week's test...
Some schools will process with an old score if you ask them to, others won't. I just made sure they would reconsider a higher score if they denied admission with the old score. Last year I sent in apps as early as I could before I had a score and they took about 1-2 months to process when the score posted. This was January.
I ended up getting into some schools way below the median LSAT (6-7 points in some cases).
@todduncan2 That's awesome! So low below the median!
Update: some schools will not hold your application if it's completed (ie. It has a score), but I'm guessing that these schools also will allow you to reapply in light of a new score if you get rejected. This is the case for UT (just got an email from them). :P
Thanks for your thoughts, everyone!
@"nicolas.saw" Yeah! I'm also looking at a few of those. I'm planning on applying to UCD and UCI, probably also UCLA and USC. UCLA obviously more of a stretch and score will factor a lot there. Fingers crossed.
@"Alex Divine" You're right and I probably need to just not be a chicken and send everything ASAP. I'm registered for February and was intending that to be more for scholarship negotiations, but if my score ends up (gulp) around 164, I may need it more for admission too. So I probably should commit to that and also just send them now.
Thanks guys!
6-7 points below median?! Wow, that's awesome. Mind sharing which ones or a little more info about this?
I spoke with a A&M and STCL today, and they told me that they hold off on a decision since they see I'm registered for the February exam.
I know these are nowhere near top schools like the ones being mentioned here, but just thought I'd pitch in.
Oh my god, if we end up going to school together that would be SO FUN. I'm going for public interest/criminal defense.
Guys! I'm applying to UCD, UCI, UCLA and USC also
I plan on putting UCI first if I don't get a better score in Jan!!
One thing I've noticed reading multiple forums is that once a school rejects you, they do not want to reopen your application if you take let's say February. Despite the score. Just based on this, I will apply only when I know my score.
UC 7SAGE PARTY
And @"nicolas.saw" I'm looking at PI/government. :-D
Also @LSATcantwin, what's your take on UCI? It strikes me as a solid school but I know it's the new kid on the block. You really dig it? I live up in Washington so haven't been able to do visits or anything really yet.
Interesting. If you score at or above their median on a later take and you look about as good or better in other regards than the rest of the other applicants in their pool, I can't imagine why they wouldn't accept you if they had spaces left. Did these forums cite statistics showing that appealed applicants of equal scores/qualities compared to first-round applicants were less likely to be accepted? These stats would also have to control for the fact that appealed applicants are reviewed later in the admissions cycle, which could be a confounding factor. Universities would be missing out on some rock-star candidates if they glossed over a student that appealed for a really compelling reason.
You didn't ask me, but I'm going to butt in and offer my two cents.
I went go on a tour of UCI this past summer. I think there's a huge benefit to being in the UC system, since you get access to a ton of pooled resources and talented teachers/researchers. As far as I can tell, the UCs tend to culturally cross-pollinate a lot (I know their Center on Law, Equality and Race collabs with a lot of Critical Race Theorists at USC and UCB for panels and stuff--something that I'm really into). UCI is also just a giant university overall that has a ton of resources that it typically uses for its undergraduate masses. While it's pretty new, it's got a LOT of institutional support in the university at large and the UC system.
Also UCI is imho a way prettier campus compared to USC or UCLA.
Interesting! Thanks for the info! I was in LA for a bit a couple months ago and I didn't do official visits but did just walk around USC and UCLA to get a vibe while I was in town. I used to live in West LA so I'm pretty familiar with the area, and both schools are about what I expected. I really enjoyed the vibe of the UCLA campus, but I may be biased because I used to work close over there too and it just feels like my old hood, ya know? USC is... USC. Haha. Great school but the location in town is obviously not ideal.
That said, I'm not originally from CA and didn't go to a UC so I'm not all that familiar with how they operate. So, that's really helpful to hear all that! It seems like UCI is making big strides for being new. They have really good stats. Seems like they're only ranked where they are because they are so new. Might actually be a bargain to go now if they continue to rise in the rankings.
What do you think about UCD? My knowledge of it is that it doesn't have as great a reputation, but still seems like a solid regional school. And of course as someone also interested in PI, I don't need the draw of biglaw recruitment. There's a decent amount of upside though. Yeah?
What he said! Lol I’ll just add that for a new school they are ranked 28 by USNR. Which I mean...that’s pretty darn good. And regionally they have already made a footprint on the west. I met with an advisor at the LSAC forum and he asked me to do a tour! I live in NorCal so it’s hard to get down there, but depending on my score I might do it!
@"Leah M B" Davis gets crapped on a lot, but it’s not terrible. The campus location sucks though lol. It’s in the middle of no where, surrounded by farms and fields. I exaggerate only a little. San Francisco is about an hour and a half away, and Sacramento is close as well. Plus Tahoe and a lot of other places are a short drive away!
As for the school itself I’ve heard both good and bad things. I would push Davis below Irvine and USC though.
I've also had a chance to visit UCD! And while it is in the middle of nowhere (used to be an agricultural school), it is actually very high on my list (probably on the top of all of my mid-range schools). Why? Because it has a really strong social justice thrust and culture, which is the field I'm going into. They have a ton of really great clinics ("Aoki Social Justice Clinic" and "Prison Law Clinic") and a social justice concentration that are tailored to the kind of work I hope to do in prison reform/community organizing. I didn't get a chance to see the campus a whole lot.
Maybe it's in the middle of nowhere. But hey, they have a rock climbing gym like five minutes from campus, so I think I'll be fine.
(I've also got some family in NorCal) They're apparently ranked the "#1 bike friendly school" in the country. Take that for what you will.
If I had to choose between a full-ride or close to full-ride at UCD or going into UCLA or USC with little aid, I would be very strongly tempted by the former.
Yeah, I've driven through that area. The drive from Oregon to SoCal is not glamorous, haha. Very familiar with that middle-of-nowhere farm land haha. I guess on the good side, cost of living is maybe lower? I mean, definitely lower than in SoCal at least haha.
I think UCLA would probably be my #1 out of west coast schools, but doubting I'll get enough scholarship to make it possible. USC seems like they give out more aid, so that could work. Wasn't totally sure about how UCI and UCD compare with each other, but was leaning more toward UCI. Good to confirm that!
Hey Leah,
Someone just asked this at David's admissions webinar and his advice was basically what you put in your second option on the survey -- apply to safety and target schools and hold off on applying to reach schools until you know your score. Even if you are planning on taking the Feb test, they may dismiss you early with your December score. He even considered the benefits of applying before Christmas break and still said this.
So, I'm going against the grain with what most people have told you here on account of that guy proooooooobably knows what he's talking about!
I just emailed David about this after reading comments on this post. Thanks for letting me know!!
Oh, that's so helpful! Thanks for letting me know! I keep waffling on this and that was my natural inclination. Thanks for the heads up!
This is not true across the board!
I've contacted admissions at most of the t14, although most will automatically wait to review apps with a pending score, some will review it as soon as it is technically complete ie reportable score, lors and ps etc.
Usually these schools allow you to add an addendum asking them to wait for your later score, but you should verify with each school before submitting!
To your original question, I agree with @FerdaFresh And David the wise. Apply asap to safeties and target schools, including the aforementioned addenda as necessary, some schools (UofM for sure) will examine your application now and make a final decision once your score posts. But I would wait on reach schools to avoid a possible rejection or wasted time/effort/$ on potentially unrealistic applications.
I personally am waiting on everything. You only get one shot to make a first impression and you don't want them to put your file to the side only to have to come back to it later.
Below is an email from UC Berkeley's admissions office that explicitly says to apply as soon as possible DESPITE having a pending score and that doing so will improve your odds of gaining acceptance because they will experience a high volume of applications in January.
So it seems the ultimate advice on the matter is this: ask the school. If they hold the application, then apply ASAP and not doing so will hurt your chances. If they don't hold your application (like UT, for example), obviously wait until the later score posts to apply.
"Mr. nicolas.saw,
Thank you for your interest in Berkeley Law. If a candidate is registered for future LSAT and/or the future score is pending, it is our policy to not complete a file until LSAC reports the score. At that time, we will complete the file and notify you electronically that it is complete and under review.
Additionally, we strongly encourage all candidates to submit an application as early as possible even if there is no reported LSAT score. Because the volume of applications increases greatly in January and the December score will not post until then, the order in which we review is based on the submission date. Applications submitted earlier in the cycle will be reviewed first (e.g., files submitted with today's date) and will receive a notification sooner rather than receive a later response.
If you have any additional questions, feel free to contact our office by email or at (510) 642-2274.
Sincerely,"
(RE: UCI - Not sure how often Dave @DumbHollywoodActor actor checks the site anymore - but would highly recommend at least reaching out to him to ask about his 1L experience at UCI
Thank you for this. Would you mind telling me if your September score is above or closer to their median? I scored poorly on the September LSAT, so I don't want to risk my chances.
Sorry I saw that it say "even if there is no reported LSAT score," so I guess the December test was your first take. If so, applying ASAP makes sense.
Yeah, @akistotle a few comments up someone mentioned @"David.Busis"’s advice from a recent admissions webinar that you should go ahead and apply to safety/target schools now if you think you are safe at least for admission and wait to send for any stretch schools until you know your score. I think the same should apply if you already have a September score too. If you think you might risk rejection based on September score, wait until December scores are out or closer to it. But if you’re safe either way, go ahead and submit now.
Actually I did take in September. And my score was well below their median (159).
However, even if you have a terrible score on your file and are waiting on a December score, they still ask you to submit your application early and they will not consider it complete:
From email: "If a candidate is registered for future LSAT and/or the future score is pending, it is our policy to not complete a file until LSAC reports the score."
I have received similar advice from my admissions consultant.
If you're applying to UCB, I would encourage you to apply as early as you can as they are a school that holds applications and "the order in which [they] review is based on the submission date".
Thanks @twssmith for the notification.
Hello 7Sage. It's been a while.
I am happy to answer any questions you might have about UCI Law.
Some general rambling thoughts:
The graduate student housing is pretty darn good. It's at most a 10 minute walk to the law school.
If you have a family, I'm not sure you really can beat UCI. The Irvine School District is one of the best.
If you're on the young side and looking to party a lot, Newport Beach and Laguna Beach are the next towns over. But this is law school, so good luck with that.
The faculty is top notch and getting better all the time. Of course, you probably know that we lost our most famous faculty member to Berkeley. Just what that means, no one knows for sure, but, in all honesty, I'll be shocked if our ranking does not go down because of it.
There is an unquestionable "nice" vibe to UCI that many law schools lack. The school bends over backwards to make a student feel like they want you to succeed. However, come exam time, UCI has a curve just like every other law school.
The school has really tried hard to up its public interest cred. Some say they did this because their biglaw numbers never peaked above 40%. Some say it was in the school's DNA from the start. Nevertheless, if you want to go into PI, you'll be hard pressed to find a place better suited. I took Constitutional Law this past semester with a man who's argued 4 times in front of the Supreme Court. His cause is trying to make education a fundamental right. If that quixotic endeavor sounds like something you'd like to spend your life doing, UCI might be the place for you.
UCI has historically been surprisingly good at prestigious clerkship appointments. Again, this is now uncertain since Dean Chemerinsky has left.
Employment numbers could be better, but they could be worse. Here are the numbers. http://www.law.uci.edu/careers/students/employment-info/statistics/employment-summary-2016.html You can judge for yourself. Bottom line: If you want to work in Southern California (especially OC, which is my main goal), a job is yours to lose. If you want something outside of SoCal, you're going to have to put in the work.
Let me know if you have any specific questions. I'm in the middle of finals, so I can't promise I'll check this every day. I'll do my best.
Thank you, @"nicolas.saw" ! I'll talk to David about this.
Thank you so much for writing this in the middle of finals!!