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zmeeker91389

Joined: Apr 2025
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Admissions · PS Swap?

zmeeker91389

Tuesday, Oct 31 2017

I'm game if anyone wants to swap with me. I'll be working on mine and handing out candy all night.

General

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Sunday, Aug 27 2017

zmeeker91389

Crazy just scored a 178

Usually grade my tests by hand (I've done probably done over 40 of them over the last few months), and today I randomly decided to use the grader on here. I had to blink a couple times when I read final score... 178. I'm used to scoring in the low 170s, so I was not expecting this. I had to re-grade by hand to make sure it wasn't a mistake.

I think I can attribute this to three things: (1) I had a really light week in terms of studying this week and went out last night, so I went in with a calm mindset (2) tried a new strategy on LR and RC that seemed to help me not get stuck on questions (I utilized something like the 25 in 25 strategy on here, only it was more like 25 in 30 for me) and (3) finally had a perfect games section on a PT. Feel encouraged! I started at a 162 five months ago.

Anyways, my family is sick of hearing me talk about the LSAT, so I thought I'd share this here.

General · Law School Emails

zmeeker91389

Tuesday, Sep 26 2017

@ Hope so! I visited last Spring, and the campus is phenomenal. If you get a chance to visit, I would higher recommend it.

Admissions · Following instructions/Colorado law application

zmeeker91389

Monday, Sep 25 2017

Hey, I'm also applying to Colorado Law, and I'm going up for a tour and class observation on Friday! Maybe I'll see you there next year. But, it seems like it is asking for one personal statement that is not to exceed 1,000 words. One part is mandatory the and other optional. That is my take. If you find out otherwise, please let me know!

General · Is a fish "wet" if it is completely submerged in water?

zmeeker91389

Monday, Sep 25 2017

@ said:

Did you know a shark will only attack you when you're wet?

False, have you seen the movie Sharknado?

Also, love the name. Is that meant to be a Kripke reference?

General · I'm scared of the clock

zmeeker91389

Monday, Sep 25 2017

I agree with maybe starting with sections and working up to full length practice tests. That might help you condition yourself to being comfortable with the time without the pressure of having to score your performance at the end.

Also, there's a mindset factor here. This is where I think meditation can help. There's apps like headspace that are a good introduction to meditation and the first ten lessons are free (or something like that). The idea is that you want to be aware of time but not react to it. The more you can focus on one task at a time (this is what meditation is all about) the less time will sap away your attention from the test.

General · Law School Emails

zmeeker91389

Friday, Sep 22 2017

@ said:

these emails can be very annoying... I have a personal war going on with Arizona Summit.

BUT! Do not disregard them. Once LSAC had my LSAT score in I started getting a number of emails from T14 schools waiving my application fee. I'm always happy to get an email saving me $55-$85.

Been getting these too. While I'm not putting much stock in them, I'm certainly happy to be able to apply to these schools without paying the full price (still have the LSAC report fee to pay admittedly). Does make me feel special when they send me material in the mail though lol. Got a packet from Michigan with a fee waiver and a letter and that sure made me feel good.

Admissions · Post LSAT... Now what?

zmeeker91389

Thursday, Sep 21 2017

Definitely feeling a lack of motivation to do anything that isn't related to my applications. Coasting really hard at the office this week. Otherwise, I've spent 8ish hours this week updating my resume and once I get it done I need to get my LORs on lock so I can get to writing my essays. I'm applying to some early decision programs so I need to be ready to go by November 1st. Plus ski season starts November 15th, and I want to have the rest of my applications done by then!

Admissions · Post LSAT... Now what?

zmeeker91389

Thursday, Sep 21 2017

@ said:

Luckily for me, some schools are sending emails about application fee waivers.

Unluckily (is that a word?), some expire on October 1 so I have to crank out some applications quickly. This is definitely keeping me motivated post-LSAT.

See if you've got any of those emails, the savings certainly add up quickly.

Wait, fee waivers expire? What kind of shenanigans is that?

LSAT · Official September 2017 LSAT Discussion Thread

zmeeker91389

Saturday, Sep 16 2017

@ said:

I had RC LR LG RC LR. Was really hoping that the first RC was real, but turns out it was experimental. Judges passage and Freud/Marx passage were ridiculous. LG was pretty easy and LR was par for the course, if not a little harder.

Hopefully there's a decent curve, though doubtful considering June's RC was brutal, as well.

December's looking pretty nice right about now.

Sounds like you had the same format as me. Do you remember the other passages in the experimental section? I can't remember any other them for the life of me besides the pyramid/Louvre section. Lol I know it's just the experimental section but it's bugging the crap out of me.

LSAT · Official September 2017 LSAT Discussion Thread

zmeeker91389

Saturday, Sep 16 2017

Guys, I'm pretty sure I blacked out for the experimental RC section. My test was RC-LR-LG-RC-LR and my first section was the experimental section. I distinctly remember the pyramid passage, but I don't remember anything after that... The rest of the test I feel like I remember pretty well. I know it's just the experimental section but this is bugging me. Did anyone have the same sequence of sections and remember the other topics in the experimental section?

LSAT · Official September 2017 LSAT Discussion Thread

zmeeker91389

Saturday, Sep 16 2017

@ said:

There was an RC experimental passage about abstract thinking and primitive art. There was also an experimental passage on immunity to lawsuits. I have no memory of any passage mentioning the pyramids or the louvre or astronomy--are there multiple experimental versions?

This is what I'm wondering as well. I remember the pyramid and Louvre passage but I can't remember the other passages from that section for the life of me. Do you remember what the comparison passage was for your experimental section?

Admissions · Diversity Statement Advice Please?

zmeeker91389

Saturday, Dec 16 2017

Have fun at Yale! Just kidding. Those are both great topics. If I had to pick, I would say go with the second. As @ pointed out, that would make also make a great adversity essay. There's also a good chance you'll get a mom on the admission comittee. In that case, you'll have an automatic ally!

Admissions · Resume

zmeeker91389

Saturday, Dec 16 2017

I would have one section dedicated to work/professional experience and another section dedicated to volunteer/service learning. If space is a concern, consult the application instructions. Most schools don't have a space limitation and explicitly advice against the one-page standard (assuming you have more experience that would merit you go over the one-page standard). If a school does say limit your resume to one-page, you'll have to ask yourself if you want to dedicate space to your volunteer work, or if other aspects of your background are more relevant. Hope this helps!

Study Groups · September LSAT Pep Rally | Wednesday at 7:30 pm EDT

zmeeker91389

Wednesday, Sep 13 2017

@ said:

After 7 months of studying, my LSAT watch will have ended around 2:30 on Saturday. Can't wait.

On Saturday, "and now his watch has ended."

LSAT · Conditional rule

zmeeker91389

Wednesday, Dec 13 2017

I would say it is the first, unless you are looking at an In/Out game where both must be on the board. The second would imply that anytime that G isn't hired in a department, F must be. That is stronger than what the statement says.

LSAT · Is my good memory hindering the benefits of fool proofing ?

zmeeker91389

Wednesday, Dec 13 2017

@ said:

I don't know whether I'm finally breaking through that threshold of understanding where things just "click" or if my memory skills are just carrying me through because I've seen certain games before.

I know what you mean. I was skeptical of the fool proof method for this very reason.

But I think this ultimately is a good thing, as long as you remembering the inferences and not the correct answer. I say this because inferences often repeat throughout test history, so if you memorize a few inferences, there is a good chance that at least some of those will show up again on another test. This is how people beast mode the games and finish with ten minutes to go.

Admissions · Columbia Fee Waiver

zmeeker91389

Wednesday, Dec 13 2017

I received a fee waiver back in October specifically because of my LSAT score (said so in the email). My assumption then was that they were sending those out to everyone with a certain LSAT score who's signed up for CRS. Maybe this round is to get interest right before the December/January peak season starts?

Also, a 167 is definitely not outside the realm of possibility at Columbia. If you think you have a chance with your GPA, what's $30 to apply?

General · Guys.....my friends....my people

zmeeker91389

Friday, Oct 13 2017

Hey Jonathan,

First of all, sorry to hear about September.

The good news is that you have already demonstrated that you are capable of scoring much higher (assuming that your PT were taken under timed conditions). While this must feel disappointing, this is not the end. What is even better news is that you don't really need to press the "restart button" because you have learned enough content to score in the low 160s, which is already in the upper 80th percentile.

What I would recommend is doing everything you can to take the test in conditions closest to real test conditions as possible at least once a week. If you are out of tests, go back to the first test you took and go from there. You want to practice like you play on game day. Think of it like a sport. If you are training to run a marathon what do you do? You get up at the same time one day of the week, eat the exact same food, and get in the exact same mindset so when race day comes it is like any other day.

Otherwise, I would recommend really examining past tests to identify what your weaknesses are. Then, focus on improving in those areas. While a 160 is good, that score still indicates to me there is a lot of things you can learn about the test. For me, LG was my weakness (especially grouping games) so I spent the time between June and September drilling games everyday. Also, I'm interested to know why you think it was a timing issue. To me, it sounds like something happened to your accuracy.

Good Luck!

LSAT · So I'm not a philosophy major...

zmeeker91389

Wednesday, Dec 13 2017

I was a philosophy major, so take my advice with a grain of salt. But, a great book to pick up that will help you to think logically is What is the Name of this Book by Raymond Smullyan. It's sort of an easy way to get a recreational dose of logic and puzzle solving when you need it. The logic puzzles start simple and by the end you learn aspects of Godel's proof. My friend was a math tutor, and she used it to help her students learn logic. Another option would be to pick up an informal logic book, which is much more valuable than a formal logic book.

Admissions · Should I take that chance and write about this in my personal statement?

zmeeker91389

Wednesday, Dec 13 2017

I don't think this would constitute grounds for an immediate rejection. People apply to law school and are accepted with much worse things in their application. But, personally I would write about this in an addendum and use your personal statement to sell them on something positive about you. Not that I don't think this couldn't be done, but I think it would make your work a bit more challenging.

The way it was explained to me was to use the personal statement to tell them why they want you, not why they shouldn't reject you.

Admissions · Increase in 160s-170+ scorers! (2017-2018)

zmeeker91389

Tuesday, Dec 12 2017

@-1

Where do I assume causation exactly? By pointing to an unfair advantage I'm merely pointing to an objective outcome and judging the merit of that outcome. I'm not even really speculating about causation. One simple question: Would this group receive the scores they do without the extra time? I can say with high degree of certainty that no, the group probably wouldn't. Moreover, these scores are objectively better outcomes, which constitutes an advantaged position. Therefore, extra time contributes to an advantage over the normal population. Never claimed this was the sole factor.

If you want, I could design an experiment where (a) people were tested under normal conditions and (b) people were given more time. I can guarantee I could create a predictive model that uses time as one of the primary inputs. I just thought for the sake of argument we could assume this to be the case.

Anyways, didn't mean to create a big debate over this, and I certainly didn't mean to offend anyone. I believe that people should seek accommodations if they believe/know they need them. But, I also think that out of respect for those individuals and everyone who takes the LSAT, we should take gaming of accommodations seriously. It does happen.

Admissions · Increase in 160s-170+ scorers! (2017-2018)

zmeeker91389

Monday, Dec 11 2017

@ said:

You are reading way too much into this sentence from the report. They tend to score slightly higher. This would make sense. Why would someone go through the trouble of requesting accommodations if they knew they were just going to score on the lower end even with more time. The larger the time accommodation's impact on your score the more likely you are to request and actually go through taking the test.

My point is that a fair outcome would be one where the outcomes for both populations would be on a par, not lower. No matter how "slight" (notice those are the LSAC's words who want the process to seem fair) the difference is, the fact there appears to be a statistically significant difference accross multiple tests points to an advantage (can't say for sure because I don't have the raw data). I'm not claiming that it is predictive, just in the past the outcomes of giving people extra time could be viewed as unfair from a distributive perspective.

@ said:

The point is there exist a lot of possible explanations for those numbers, so don't believe one just because that explanation gives you someone to blame other than yourself for your eventual outcomes in applying (which at this point in the cycle could still be really good!).

Totally agree with the first part. Perhaps I stated things too strongly. I didn't mean to give the impression that I thought any one explanation was conclusive. However the second part is a bit of a strawman. I'm not blaming anyone for the outcomes of my applications (didn't even bring that up). I was merely pointing out that there is data that might indicate there is an underlying problem.

The influence of self-selected groups cannot be understated. An obvious example is Mylsn.info: the averages in their database are well above the national figures because the majority of people who use the tool and report their scores will be highly motivated, generally successful individuals.

This is a good point that I didn't initially consider. However, because I feel it necessary to defend my initial position, I think you make a lot more assumptions by saying that this group is significantly different from the general population in terms of their academic abilities, work habits and etc. It's possible this group is just harder working and more qualitied, but nothing indicates that is the case.

Admissions · Increase in 160s-170+ scorers! (2017-2018)

zmeeker91389

Monday, Dec 11 2017

On the one hand, I'm not satisfied with the explanation that accommodations are significantly contributing to the 175-180 score range. We simply don't have the data to know whether or not this is true. However, I don't think think the analogy about voter fraud is appropriate considering we do have data that indicates there is a problem.

To start, we know from a 2012 LSAC report on accommodations that people with extra time accommodations tend to have higher scores than the rest of the population. In other words, extra time does appear to give even those with documented disabilities a quantifiable advantage over the normal testing population. This fact is also true for accommodated extra time repeat test takers, who also show higher increases than average test takers. Note this is for individuals who take the test twice, both times with extra time.

Common sense would also dictate that if the system worked correctly, accommodations would (a) only be given to individuals who needed them and (b) would produce average outcomes on a par with the general population. In other words, while a few people might do significantly better or might game the system, on average the outcomes should be the same between accommodated test takers and the general population. This isn't the case which points to a systematic problem in either the documentation process, the accommodations themselves, or the approval process. Assuming that accomodations are appropriate, that means either (a) people are being overdiagnosed, (b) people are gaming the system, (c) LSAC isn't doing their job in acting as gatekeepers, or (d) some combination of the three.

Finally, I don't see how it is conceivable that setting the bar lower for approving accommodations would make an already unjust process (at least from a distributive perspective) have more equitable outcomes. It seems more conceivable that lowering the bar would make it easier for people to game the system or would give a higher percentage of the population an advantage.

Let's be real here... People taking the LSAT are going to be lawyers. We treat this popualtion like saints, but people game systems all the time (lawyers included).

LSAT · Official September 2017 LSAT Discussion Thread

zmeeker91389

Tuesday, Oct 03 2017

@ said:

Guys....I just realized, if the test scores are delayed by a day....we will get out scores back on OCTOBER Friday the 13th. I almost think the LSAC is evil enough to do this just for "fun"....

No way they're releasing scores Friday the 13th. They wouldn't... would they?

Admissions · Following instructions/Colorado law application

zmeeker91389

Sunday, Oct 01 2017

@ I meant to ask when I was there, but I forgot. Interesting sitting in on a contracts class and watching the Socratic method in action. I think it would be one essay, and if you decide to do the second part it would not exceed 500 words + part 1 that would then not be allowed to exceed 500 words (if you used the max on the second part). Overall 1000 is the maximum word count is my guess.