Careers in Law

westcoastbestcoast

I apologize if this may sound like a stupid question but are there jobs for law graduates that pay six figures outside of BigLaw. Although unrelated, I was speaking with my 24 year old friend who is a compiler engineer making close 150k while working close to 40 hours a week and I was wondering if there was a equivalent job in Law that pays a similar amount for those hours.

Alex

@westcoastbestcoast said:
I apologize if this may sound like a stupid question but are there jobs for law graduates that pay six figures outside of BigLaw. Although unrelated, I was speaking with my 24 year old friend who is a compiler engineer making close 150k while working close to 40 hours a week and I was wondering if there was a equivalent job in Law that pays a similar amount for those hours.

Yeah, there are but they are kind of .... ehh. You tend to have to make them yourself. Be successful at hanging your own shingle and all that. It is rare, though. There are also firms jobs that pay 6 figs that are rare but aren't considered big law. but those are also quite rare. As far as 40 hour a week jobs that engineers have in law making 150k, I just don't think they exist unless you make them. I know of a dude who hustles like a drug dealer. He does traffic court/criminal, selling real estate (apparently in NY you don't need a RE license if you're a barred attorney) and has a LLM in Patent law and does a few of those. The man is is a maniac but he makes 150k without doing big law.

Then there are in-house jobs at V500 companies which pay 150k+ Often one will have 3-5 years experience first before going into these jobs, but they exist and I know for a fact Amazon hires straight out of law school.

There are also pretty nice gov't jobs in state capitals that one can get. Again, not easy to get, but they are out there for sure. They pay closer to 75-90k but they are pretty good gigs if you can get them. My girlfriend's boss is a JD (non-practicing lawyer) who makes close to 90-100k and he doesn't do anything law related. Just a gov't bureaucrat.

I just hate to continually be the resident negative Nancy but making 150k as a lawyer outside of big law/in house is a hard gig to get. Though, I'd rather be hated for telling the truth then to shoot sunshine up people's butts.

westcoastbestcoast

Hey man, i appreciate the response. I saw your posts earlier on a previous thread talking about biglaw so i was hoping you would answer. I guess for lawyers theres no escaping big law if you want to make big money huh? Haha. So based on what you said about government jobs, I'm assuming working in BigFed is probably just as competitive if not more than BigLaw? Do you know if Amazon hires from Berekely and Stanford? I remember I talked to a Stanford student during a Law School Forum and he said it was common for Stanford grads to work inhouse in nearby tech companies like HP.

Alex

@westcoastbestcoast said:
Hey man, i appreciate the response. I saw your posts earlier on a previous thread talking about biglaw so i was hoping you would answer. I guess for lawyers theres no escaping big law if you want to make big money huh? Haha. So based on what you said about government jobs, I'm assuming working in BigFed is probably just as competitive if not more than BigLaw? Do you know if Amazon hires from Berekely and Stanford? I remember I talked to a Stanford student during a Law School Forum and he said it was common for Stanford grads to work inhouse in nearby tech companies like HP.

No problem. It's one of the few things I know a good amount about.

I think big money is all relative. What I will say with certitude though is that in that past decade or so "mid law" firms jobs are harder to get and more competitive because a) big law associates want a way out and b) new hires want a way in.

"Big Fed: is just as competitive as big law as you'd expect. I just used Amazon as an example and don't think they tend to hire typically out of law school for in house positions. It is also a HORRIBLY rated place to work. Check out the reviews..... Still, good money and great benefits. The person I spoke to about this had prior experience before law school. I truly think one of the best things someone can do is take 2-3 years off between law school and college and get some real-work experience. It's LITERALLY invaluable.

I'd probably rate getting an in-house job out of LS at a place like Amazon as pretty darn rare. However, I know it's possible, but tbh, how much this person went through/class rank. I'm not sure. Don't bank on it though.

Amazon hires from all top schools if you look at their roster. I just think getting an in house position there requires a bit more than school rank. Something else was up with this dude, I remember that specifically. I can't remember if he had an MBA or consulting background at MBB... Or just nailed an interview. He went to Columbia for what it's worth Cum Laude. I'd imagine Berk and especially Stanford will open those doors right up for you though if there's a chance you want to work at a company instead of a firm.

As far as the Stan grad you spoke to..He would know more than me. I don't know anyone who went to there or much about the Cali Big Law/Legal market. I know a girl who went to Hastings and works at like MTV as some assistant. From what I do know and have heard: Stanford places amazing and with it's proximity to Silicon Valley I'm sure it's one of the best places to go if you are interested in a place to Google, Amazon, etc.

I just want to be honest that when it comes to this subject I don't know nearly as much as I do about just standard big law/finance in NY. I just know it's not common for any companies to hire new JD's because they don't know much of anything and it's a smarter business decision to let big law handle them for a few years first. I'd also guess that it helps to separate the wheat from the chaff to some extent.

That said, I'm sure Stanford grads have TONS of opportunities at start ups and companies that someone who went to NYU/UVA just wouldn't have. Sorry I can't be of more help with this though. Their employment 509 2015 Data shows plenty of people being hired by business firms. And if you got to Berk/Stanford it isn't like you settled to work at the legal dept of Aflac or Progressive insurance. So I'd have to assume some of those grads are going straight into V500s. Just hard to say how many and what their backgrounds are.

stepharizona

One of the most transferable roles is a Director of Human (HRD or DHR) Resources or VP of HR often at 40-50 hours a week. For the VP roles youll almost always need about 4 years min HR experience.

Even if you dont have HR experience often law graduates who specilized in Employment law can transition to an HR Manager, especially if its a compliance role.

Its one of those jobs often listed as an "alternative". Youll see its top of the list here: http://abovethelaw.com/career-files/nine-non-legal-jobs-you-can-really-truly-do-with-a-law-degree/

Im one of the odd HRDs whos transfering to law and will likely make less than half of my old salary in PI or even non BL.

HR pays really well and depending on your level hours will more than likely be over 40, but in a large setting prob not. For example a VP of HR at a nonprofit might make upwards of 110k or more, but might works 60 hours a week as they have a small department. For profit is often 160-240k or more ar a Fortune 500, but is much closer to 40.

As an example, AMEX and Amazon start their management entry level HR people out at around $60k and you can contract for about $33-$70 an hour.

If you also study executive compensation and contracts and also have WorldAtWork certifications you can make $25k - 50k
per contract/project. But you have to hussle to get the work, in a firm youll make less. These projects might be 50-60 hours a week, but only 3-6 weeks long. Most compensation professionals I know work at most 5 big jobs a year and take off the rest.

Youll also see on the list trainer and Id include with this investigstor. This is what Uber and Tessla will be hiring/has already hired (or their law firm hired). These people are outside HR folks often with a legal background that conduct impartial EEOC/DOL investigations and audits. They also provide the mandated trainings as required by the state for companies and to Executives who have been "caught" to ensure things like the Uber issue do not go public. Those firms often fly under the radar, but are out there. They also provide expert witness testimony at trials.

So yeah HR is a great option. It has jobs that will use your JD and and pays well. Plus theres tons of variety and always jobs open.

Downside, you do not need a JD for these jobs, just a Bachelors and sometimes a Masters. Certification can also play a role.

While I plan to go a completely different direction with my law career, returning to HR is my backup. If I return to HR, Ill join an investigstion group in which I have current ties.

Cant Get Right

Great info @"Alex Divine" and @stepharizona . For that matter, great question OP.