The Softs that Matter

AlexanderCM

I've been reading a lot that most softs don't matter at all except in tie breaker situations. Is this true? I just did my LSAC GPA calculation and it dropped my GPA a whole point and a half (sigh) but I have extremely relevant work experience (negotiate contracts/represent individuals in arbitrations and employment hearings for a union) and military service. I'm kind of hoping that's still looked at, but the more I read on the subject the less important softs seem to be.

Alex

They are important, but ultimately, LSAT/GPA are worth so much more. That's not to discount soft facots like w/e, awards, military duty, or URM status, etc. There is also a large range of softs. Someone winning a Rhodes Scholar is going to be a much bigger soft than someone who was editor of their schools newspaper. They matter in WAY more than tie breaker situations, but, again, they do matter much less than grades/LSAT.

danielznelson

Softs can help build reliable intuitions from admissions officers. Numbers are king, for sure, but there's no doubt that softs (I suppose I would include your statements) make a difference - at least I have seen this in my personal application process. Before expanding on this, I'll give you a quick snapshot of how my cycle has been going:

Michigan and UVA are the only two schools that have admitted me, and both admitted me pretty early after I submitted my applications. I visited only these two schools and submitted "Why X" statements to only these two schools. There's always a possibility that this is all mere coincidence, but I highly doubt it. My luck with other schools may reveal more of why I think this.

Berkeley denied me - not really a surprise there. I suspected they would despite my numbers being above their medians, especially my LSAT score. My application just didn't interest Berkeley, and I figured it wouldn't. And that's fine. Just as Michigan and UVA are looking for students who would be a fruitful piece of their student body, so is Berkeley.

Duke priority waitlisted me and will probably ultimately deny me, since I haven't submitted any additional material. Cornell asked for a video interview but later denied me after I never submitted one. Chicago waitlisted me. Harvard and Stanford understandably denied me.

Here are some snippets from law school admissions deans:

Asha Rangappa: The biggest misconception is that we base our admission on numbers alone. I am amazed that this misconception persists, given that there are sites like LSN that show that we do turn down people with 180 LSATs and 4.0 GPAs and take people with lower tests scores and GPAs instead. Hmmm. Why would this be the case? Well, because we read the applications! We have too few spots to just bring in the people who happened to score well on exams and standardized tests. We use these numbers to be confident in an applicant’s academic potential – we don’t want to bring someone here who can’t handle the work and will struggle – but beyond that we want people who are interesting, multi-faceted, intellectually curious, and will be great lawyers and representatives of YLS. Numbers don’t tell you about these things.

Sarah Zearfoss when asked if a few documents can reveal if a candidate will be a good fit: Sometimes we learn because I might have had an instinct or another reader had an instinct that this person’s not going to be a good fit and I might have admitted that person anyway because there were other countervailing factors that made me think it was worth it. Or, I might have said I think that intuition is wrong about this person; we might have disagreed. And then that person comes and we learn, the intuition was right. That’s one way we learn. And then we go back and look when we find that out — we add to our list of how we make decisions.

Later, when asked what freshman undergraduate students could do if they want to go to law school...

We consider what we do all the time. Another way we sometimes find out is we’ll deny people because we don’t think they’ll be good fits and then those people write us outraged angry emails, which is a good sign that our gut instinct was right.
I really think you should choose the major that speaks to you. If you are really interested in pursuing anthropology, it would be silly to be a poli sci major simply because you know that poli sci majors are one of the most common majors in law school. Do what it is that speaks to you and do well in it. Any major can prepare you for law school — it’s more important that what you’re doing is challenging yourself within the major and without. Don’t confine yourself to courses in your major — we look to the whole curriculum to see how adept you are at stretching yourself to other disciplines.

Other things you should do: You should certainly be doing something every summer. You shouldn’t be sitting around and saying boy I really need to relax in between school years. School is hard — I can see why people might think that’s a perfectly reasonable choice to make, and it is, but you know, it doesn’t make you stand out in a law school application to do that.

If you have to earn money, that’s fine — you should just be earning money. But it is also impressive if you can combine what you need to do, in terms of earning money, with some effort to explore your interest in the law. So maybe you could volunteer two hours a week at the American Civil Liberties Union answering phones or at legal services in whatever town you’re in, or any one of a jillion non-profit legal organizations. Or you could try to get an internship for a few weeks so you could still earn money for the bulk of the summer. That would be, I think, a smart and impressive thing to do. Or you can try to find a job doing clerical work at a law office, which isn’t going to tell you too much about being a lawyer, but it’ll tell you a little and it will also start expanding your network of people in the legal profession.

Get involved. I just like seeing people have some interest outside their grades during the school year. It tells me 1) that they are well-rounded and 2) that they have the ability to handle multiple tasks which is key to being a lawyer.

Former UVA dean Jason Trujillo: Conversely, we have some applicants who have very good numbers, but do not put the care into their application that one might expect, or they may have a lukewarm letter of recommendation. Particularly with nonresident applicants, where we have nearly 33 nonresident applications for every nonresident seat in the entering class, that is going to put you on the wait list.

I put a lot of emphasis on letters of recommendations. You’d be surprised how many very solid applicants are wait-listed because of a letter of recommendation that gave me pause. Being brilliant is one thing, but if your recommender says you have trouble being patient with people who disagree with you, or is at best lukewarm, you are going on the wait list.

Alex

@danielznelson said:
Softs can help build reliable intuitions from admissions officers. Numbers are king, for sure, but there's no doubt that softs (I suppose I would include your statements) make a difference - at least I have seen this in my personal application process. Before expanding on this, I'll give you a quick snapshot of how my cycle has been going:

Michigan and UVA are the only two schools that have admitted me, and both admitted me pretty early after I submitted my applications. I visited only these two schools and submitted "Why X" statements to only these two schools. There's always a possibility that this is all mere coincidence, but I highly doubt it. My luck with other schools may reveal more of why I think this.

Berkeley denied me - not really a surprise there. I suspected they would despite my numbers being above their medians, especially my LSAT score. My application just didn't interest Berkeley, and I figured it wouldn't. And that's fine. Just as Michigan and UVA are looking for students who would be a fruitful piece of their student body, so is Berkeley.

Duke priority waitlisted me and will probably ultimately deny me, since I haven't submitted any additional material. Cornell asked for a video interview but later denied me after I never submitted one. Chicago waitlisted me. Harvard and Stanford understandably denied me.

Here are some snippets from law school admissions deans:

Asha Rangappa: The biggest misconception is that we base our admission on numbers alone. I am amazed that this misconception persists, given that there are sites like LSN that show that we do turn down people with 180 LSATs and 4.0 GPAs and take people with lower tests scores and GPAs instead. Hmmm. Why would this be the case? Well, because we read the applications! We have too few spots to just bring in the people who happened to score well on exams and standardized tests. We use these numbers to be confident in an applicant’s academic potential – we don’t want to bring someone here who can’t handle the work and will struggle – but beyond that we want people who are interesting, multi-faceted, intellectually curious, and will be great lawyers and representatives of YLS. Numbers don’t tell you about these things.

Sarah Zearfoss when asked if a few documents can reveal if a candidate will be a good fit: Sometimes we learn because I might have had an instinct or another reader had an instinct that this person’s not going to be a good fit and I might have admitted that person anyway because there were other countervailing factors that made me think it was worth it. Or, I might have said I think that intuition is wrong about this person; we might have disagreed. And then that person comes and we learn, the intuition was right. That’s one way we learn. And then we go back and look when we find that out — we add to our list of how we make decisions.

Later, when asked what freshman undergraduate students could do if they want to go to law school...

We consider what we do all the time. Another way we sometimes find out is we’ll deny people because we don’t think they’ll be good fits and then those people write us outraged angry emails, which is a good sign that our gut instinct was right.
I really think you should choose the major that speaks to you. If you are really interested in pursuing anthropology, it would be silly to be a poli sci major simply because you know that poli sci majors are one of the most common majors in law school. Do what it is that speaks to you and do well in it. Any major can prepare you for law school — it’s more important that what you’re doing is challenging yourself within the major and without. Don’t confine yourself to courses in your major — we look to the whole curriculum to see how adept you are at stretching yourself to other disciplines.

Other things you should do: You should certainly be doing something every summer. You shouldn’t be sitting around and saying boy I really need to relax in between school years. School is hard — I can see why people might think that’s a perfectly reasonable choice to make, and it is, but you know, it doesn’t make you stand out in a law school application to do that.

If you have to earn money, that’s fine — you should just be earning money. But it is also impressive if you can combine what you need to do, in terms of earning money, with some effort to explore your interest in the law. So maybe you could volunteer two hours a week at the American Civil Liberties Union answering phones or at legal services in whatever town you’re in, or any one of a jillion non-profit legal organizations. Or you could try to get an internship for a few weeks so you could still earn money for the bulk of the summer. That would be, I think, a smart and impressive thing to do. Or you can try to find a job doing clerical work at a law office, which isn’t going to tell you too much about being a lawyer, but it’ll tell you a little and it will also start expanding your network of people in the legal profession.

Get involved. I just like seeing people have some interest outside their grades during the school year. It tells me 1) that they are well-rounded and 2) that they have the ability to handle multiple tasks which is key to being a lawyer.

Former UVA dean Jason Trujillo: Conversely, we have some applicants who have very good numbers, but do not put the care into their application that one might expect, or they may have a lukewarm letter of recommendation. Particularly with nonresident applicants, where we have nearly 33 nonresident applications for every nonresident seat in the entering class, that is going to put you on the wait list.

I put a lot of emphasis on letters of recommendations. You’d be surprised how many very solid applicants are wait-listed because of a letter of recommendation that gave me pause. Being brilliant is one thing, but if your recommender says you have trouble being patient with people who disagree with you, or is at best lukewarm, you are going on the wait list.

Amazingly insightful. Thank you, Daniel!

AlexanderCM

Daniel that was really helpful! Thank you. I'm definitely going to need to make sure my letters of rec are strong and my application is well crafted.