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Realistically, how important are personal statements?
hlkoo1212
Alum Member
Realistically, how important are personal statements in determining whether you get in or not? I've been stressing out over mine and I'm starting to think that I don't need to worry too much about them.
Answers from people who have already applied/got into T14 schools were be especially appreciated. I'd like to know about your experience
Comments
The school's get to see three things about you, two are cold hard numbers (LSAT and GPA) and the third is your writing in personal statements and addenda. It's your one chance to say;
I value the opportunity to be able to distinguish myself in a way that is not some test, or my GPA. I honestly believe schools think this way too. Sure they have your numbers but they want to know who you are. You can have a 180 LSAT and a 4.7 GPA but if you're a terrible individual do they really want you? lol This is your chance to show them who you are! So I would view it like that, and then judge the importance for yourself.
Just my two cents.
From the $15 (I think) 7Sage admissions curriculum:
"Stellar recommendations, a clean résumé, and, above all, a memorable personal statement could push a borderline application into the yes pile, just as a poorly written essay, an error-ridden résumé, or lackluster recommendations might knock an otherwise solid application onto the wait list."
It goes on to say that they have seen plenty of ppl w/ lackluster numbers get into T14 with good essays.
Yes, exactly. At the end of the day, especially the higher ranked schools, they need to have something that will differentiate you from the rest of the crowed that may have a similar GPA/LSAT . I wouldn't go as far to say it's more important than the LSAT though.
Yeah.
lol I'm jk of course but not really.
;P
Haha I might have been using a bit of hyperbole to get my point across there...a 180 opens up pretty much every door it seems!
Personal statements can make you. They're more likely to make you than break you, I'd say. If your numbers are a little low, an (keyword:) exceptional statement can get you into schools that you may not expect to gain admission to based strictly on your numbers.
It's difficult to write well and schools definitely know this.
It all depends on the school and the candidate. Certainly, a PS carries more weight for borderline candidates, but a bad PS (which includes a well-written statement with typos) can definitely ruin even a candidate who is above the medians for LSAT and GPA.
I imagine it is difficult to write a terrible personal statement, but I may be totally wrong about that lol.
I would think that they are pretty important for fringe students (i.e. students who just make the cut-off for GPA and LSAT scores). Especially if you have things in your resume/CV that may sound "meh," the PS gives you the opportunity to flesh out your experiences to show them how they shaped you. You can say you were the President of Club X, but so were a lot of people applying to law school. The awesome thing about the PS is that you can show how your Presidency of Club X was different, unique, shaped you, made you, etc.
However, I'm from Canada and one of my friends knows someone who used to be on the admissions board for University of Toronto (U of T is considered one of, if not the best law school in Canada) and flat out said that they don't even look at your personal statement anymore. To some, it's just a nice yet unimportant piece on the side of your LSAT & GPA score. Having said that though, Osgoode Law is considered the second best in Canada and it heavily focuses on your PS (or so I've heard). Can't say for T14 since I'm from Canada, but depends on the school I guess.
Oh, it's not so difficult, especially when you realize that sloppy is often automatically considered terrible. Yale's Director of Admissions says that a typo or a grammatical mistake in a PS automatically disqualifies an applicant from being a presumptive admit, which means that their application is passed on for faculty review.
Additionally, you'd be surprised how many college graduates have shockingly poor writing skills. The most compelling topic will not compensate for lousy, juvenile, or stilted prose.
Yeah, I think that's a bit extreme even if that is how Yale feels. A single typo disqualifies presumptive admit? I mean, alright I guess. Is anyone really a presumptive admit at Yale, though? Who gets into Yale without faculty review? I may just be ignorant but that sounds like standard procedure.
Honestly, the admissions process at some top schools seems/is so secretive that it strikes me as Draconian. It really is no wonder that the richest tend to be the ones who go to the top schools. Applicants need money or an inside source to really have a chance to stand out in the correct way.
On the last point, yeah, I know people don't know how to write well. Effort must count for something, though? I don't know. lol
Look here, at the paragraph beginning with @ BenJ https://law.yale.edu/admissions/jd-admissions/ask-asha/your-burning-questions-answered
Oh, I believe you. Just saying, Draconian stuff sometimes.
It's obviously hard to quantify how important it is across the board, because it is of relative importance to other parts of our app. LSAT and GPA matter most (I've seen ex-admissions officers put a figure of LSAT/GPA mattering up to ~95%) and the rest of the stuff can make marginal differences. We often attribute over importance on softs/PS because the people with the highest scores are often the same people with pretty incredible softs and PS. And it seems like everyone thinks their PS is "strong" on mylsn.info, so it's truly hard to tell. That said, a good PS can push you over the edge into the accept pile as I'm sure an absolutely horrible one can knock you into the reject. The thing is, I don't think it matters enough in most cases to offset low GPA/LSAT. Also, as @uhinberg mentioned above for YLS, a typo can make or break you. Which makes sense because a lot of literature I've read seems to indicate that your PS is just as much about examining your writing as it is about learning a bit more about you than a candidate.
I know it can seem that way, but don't let anyone convince you it's that secretive or draconian. Those are mostly just tropes that were created because many qualified applicants get upset after they get dinged from their top picks like HYS.
Have numbers that make you competitive, strong softs & w/e, and have strong LORs and a well-written PS. You'll be as competitive as anyone. Of course, having all the things I mention above may seem impossible. But if you work hard from the time you're in undergrad, I really think almost anyone can have a shot at any law school.
I like this. From what I can tell, YSH are mostly concerned with diversity. They have virtually the entire applicant pool to pick from, so I would expect that to be the case anyways.
Yay if that is the case. :]
I imagine it's school-dependent.
I think that, across the board, schools wouldn't require supplements (like "Why This School" essays, "public interest" essays, or essays like UCLA's "programmatic contribution" essay) if they were going to disregard them in the process. I also don't think that they would require them if they were only worth a 1% or 3% factor in admissions.
Consider this: look at LSN and check out the folks admitted to schools with well below GPA/LSAT scores. Consider that at these schools, there were people of similar demographics who had higher scores that were rejected. If LSAT/GPA was 95%, then how could this have been possible?
Diversity factors include things outside of race, gender, and socioeconomics (ie. art majors, STEM majors, parents, unusual careers, etc.). A productive goal of your essays should be to prove that you excelled (like, really kicked ass) in that obscure, non-traditionally-law-like field, and you're likely to hit a diversity factor that they like.
Again, totally school dependent. Some schools don't give a shit about diversity or having an incoming class filled with interesting people and just want to bolster their rankings.
Yeah. This is why I say YSH focus on diversity, because they have that luxury. No schools look at diversity to the extent that YSH do for better or worse.
Reiterating what a lot of people have been saying, I'd say the PS is pretty important if you are a fringe student. This is coming from personal experience (got into a school that is normally ranked within the top 7), as my LSAT was below the school's 25th%. I guess my personal experience is a bit out of the norm, though people would disagree over whether a 168 is a "low" LSAT score for the school I got into.
But I also have a friend at NYU law who had a killer GPA, was a XXX Scholar, and got over a 173. He spent only 2 weeks max on his essay...guess it really depends on your stats.
I spent about only 1 month actually writing and editing it, but easily spent over 3 months brainstorming ideas and struggling over what I wanted to write. Also, I had a total of 4 different people proofreading it. Like someone said, you'd be surprised at how badly someone can write or how easily one can accidentally make a common grammar mistake. Fun story: 3 of the people who read my essay and I did not correct a very commonly made word choice error, but luckily the last person caught it. I know plenty of people who had more than 4 people read their essays, so when you have applicants putting that much care into making sure there isn't a mistake, I guess 1 slip up can be seen very negatively.
-URM candidates explain a lot of the people getting into schools well below median. So, an AA with a 3.7/165 may very well get into H over a non-URM with a 3.9/175. Happens all the time... There are also tons of exceptions, too, as you note that on mylsn you can see people with similar backgrounds get rejected.
-Why X essays and the like are also forms of YP'ing before extending offers. They're certainly used to evaluate candidates writing and get to "know" the applicant better and all that. So that may explain some of the rejects/acceptances.
What I've learned is that law school is heavily a numbers game in a way that business school/med school/other grad programs are just is not. You make a good point that it's definitely school dependent. Softs no doubt seem to matter more at a school like Yale as compared to Cornell. Still, the hypothetical 5% your softs may matter isn't negligible; they my very well be the thing that pushes you into the accept pile. It just doesn't seem far fetched to think that without the requisite numbers, your chances are, at least in many cases, next to nothing.
I would also think they would matter increasingly as you enter the top schools. When many people have high LSAT/high GPA combos, softs and your PS become what can distinguish you from other high numbered applicants. All that to say, when you have thousands and thousands of applicants a 5% differential can be much larger than it seems! In sum, I think your PS/softs can help you outperform other people with your stats or stats very close to you, but they don't add to what isn't already there numbers wise.
PS and essays are very important.
I talked with almost every T14 admissions dean before applying, and most (HLS, Stanford, Columbia, Duke, and others) said that an excellent personal statement and LORs can make up even for 25th percentile numbers.
Many schools view the statement as a replacement for the interview. Its an important for schools to get to know you. Although admissions is a numbers game, you dont want to leave any stones unturned and would want to submit your best writing.