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170 4.0 - retake for T3?
yjz_0812
Free Trial Member
Hi guys, sorry for another chancing post! Just got a 170 on my July LSAT, which is slightly lower than my PT average of around 171 (range was around 168-175, with the last two PTs being 173/174). I am a non-URM female with a 4.0 GPA at a top 10 undergrad and pretty generic extracurriculars, nothing stellar. I did some research and people generally thought that these stats would very unlikely get you into T3, but I also personally know someone who got HLS with similar stats (non-URM) - should I see that as an outlier? Does my undergrad give me a subtle advantage in any way?
I am really leaning towards retaking in September because my goal is T3, but I'd still like to hear what you all think. On the one hand, the July test wasn't exactly my best performance (couldn't finish a section, room was loud etc.), and I think I still have some room for improvement in LG. On the other, I've prepped for more or less half a year, did >30 PTs, and it's possible that I reached my limit and even risk scoring lower in September, which would be catastrophic.
Lastly, what are my chances for Columbia at this point? Both RD and ED (if they are any different)
Thank you in advance!!
Comments
Excellent score! Are you a recent college graduate? Also, what was your college major?
lawschoolnumbers.com can help you figure out chances at specific schools. I think that you have a reasonable shot at Columbia with your numbers. Since you scored almost exactly your PT average, I don't think you should retake unless you get your PT average up. It seems unlikely that you'll be able to make huge progress before the September test, although you could maybe close that gap in time for November. I don't think you've reached your limit. Six months really isn't that much in terms of studying, you'll see a lot of people on here who have spent a year+ because they want to get up into the 170s. It sounds like your PT average is going up, so if I were you I'd make a really good study plan and retake in November. You won't be able to ED with a November score (I don't think), but I think your chances will be better at Columbia and HYS if you retake and score even a couple of points higher. Your top ten undergrad will be seen as a soft but won't make a substantial difference in admissions.
@MissChanandler Thank you!! What score would I need to get for the retake to be "worth it"? If a 172/173 would make a difference, I feel like I could still get there for September. On the July test I couldn't finish LG and guessed 3 questions, and that does also happen to me at home sometimes, so I'm thinking maybe perfecting LG can be a concrete way of improving those extra 2-3 points. Does this sound reasonable at all?
I think it would absolutely be worth it. No school has a median LSAT above a 173 https://7sage.com/top-law-school-admissions/ and a 4.0 is over every school's 75th. Focusing on games sounds like a good strategy, especially for faster results!
I think it really depends on how many questions you missed in LR and RC. How are they compared to your average? LG is tough for July but the curve corrected for that. You might be able to get +3 on LG in Sep but the curve might also be -10 like June as opposed to -13. Also where did you get your 173/174? Were they from more recent tests like what might be the case for Sep? I do think it's more likely you'll see curveballs in Sep as opposed to June so you might wanna think about that. I think you've got a very good shot at Columbia and a solid shot at H. I know people got into Columbia with high 160s. I don't think your chances at S and Y will change too much if you score 2 points higher and it could hurt if you score lower for S and especially for Y (They don't really average your scores but they do some form of that). And I would agree you would be more prepared in Nov. How is your studying recently?
You probably already know that you need to retake if you want to get T3. It sucks to be 2 points away, but if T3 is your goal your app needs to be flawless. Since you have to overcome your softs, you probably shouldn’t expect to get in with a lower than median LSAT. Obviously there is a chance, but not a great chance. If the LSAT retake can move you from “not great” to “good” then you should at least try.
@john.wang5314 Thank you for the input!! Unfortunately it's undisclosed so I would never know what went wrong...the two tests that i got 173/174 on were PT 82/83 which I took right before the test. That being said, I've also got 168s on more recent PTs, so it might just be the luck of the draw. It's true that I didn't exactly underperform so I'd have to make some substantial progress for the retake to be worth it. Do you really think I have a good shot at H? So if I don't retake, ED-ing Columbia wouldn't be the wisest decision? (For some reason, I personally know a couple of high scorers with high GPAs who all got wait listed by Columbia RD. That makes me think that ED is significantly safer lol)
In terms of the ED argument, I suggest that you take a look at this article:
https://blog.spiveyconsulting.com/early-decision-at-t14-is-the-bump-real/
It is a few years old but it is probably still a useful guideline.
@Ohnoeshalpme thank you!! this is helpful!
@yjzhong0709 If you do retake I think you have to make a judgement call on whether you can make the improvement and stabilize it in a few weeks. November seems to be a much safer bet to me and it won't be too late. If you don't retake I do think you have a decent shot at Harvard especially if you have the right background - they seem to be recruiting STEM majors. What's your background? But still I think you will fall close to the middle of the app pool so your essays have to stand you out. Again it might be easier to do that if your background is right. I don't think the LSAT predictors flouting around paint an accurate picture of applications at all and conclusions drawn upon them are likewise potentially misleading. The sample sizes are simply too small. I do tend to think ED would give you a boost so I would say ED Columbia would probably be the safe choice as opposed to risk losing both but obviously you have to use your judgement on that. Hope this helps!
I think you should keep the 170. The LSAT band is 3 points and so retaking with the hopes of improving it 2 points seems silly. There is also a definite possibility of retaking and getting a lower score, a 168 for instance. That would imply to an admissions officer that your 170 was the top of the band rather than the middle. Also, a family friend of my parent's is on the admissions committee at a t-20 law school and they said it is best to only take the LSAT once. A 170 and a 173 doesn't equal a 173, for instance. I'd take your GREAT score and LSAT combination and be happy that you are in a strong position! Please bear in mind that my thoughts are entirely speculative, but that is the nature of discussion boards I suppose.
Depends, are you applying this upcoming cycle? If not, then you should absolutely study and retake. If you are applying this cycle then it is prob more worth your time to start working on apps since your 170 is so close to your PT average of 171 that it seems you pretty much got what you were scoped for. Though it is ultimately up to you whether you want to aim for that additional 1 or 2 points versus an early app. Regardless, congratulations on that stellar GPA and LSAT combination.
You essentially scored your average (which is a great score by the way so congrats!) so I wouldn't suggest retaking until you've bumped that average up at least a few points. You may consider applying with this score and continuing to study so that the retake option remains open to you.
Applying early is important. You can always amend your apps with a new score from this cycle in say November or even March.