How are some of you so smart?

cqas190517

I need to know the secrets of the “I can get a 180 while I’m a prisoner of a Chinese re-education camp suffering from dysintery, completely dehydrated, freezing, and without one arm” people. Some of you diagnostic’d at 172. lawd Jesus. I need these insights.

Bamboosprout

I think it has a marked degree to do with genetics, personality type, and up-bringing.
1. Genetics. Brains are all wired differently, and everyone has their own strengths and weaknesses. Some people simply are wired better for logic. I have a friend who diagnosed at 168, and he was a weak scorer at school, and socially awkward, but his brain just saw patterns immediately on the LSAT that took me a long time to see.
2. Personality type. Some people love solving problems, discovering patterns, or just reading a lot. I know a person who can legitimately read 800 words a minute and can basically do every section besides LG twice before the time runs on, without any practice. Another friend of mine loves games, problem solving, and discovering patterns, and is an amateur competitive go player. Although he never took a diagnostics test, he consistently did questions faster and more accurately than I did when I was PTing at about 170.
3. Up-bringing. Most of the high diagnostic scoring (170+) students I know are children of lawyers or scientists. I think it has a lot to do with their day to day interactions with their family and friends. The fact that their families were highly educated and logical, makes their environment innately more logical than ours, and makes logic a first language for them. (Might also have a bit to do with genetics)

Some people are just better than others at certain things, but I don't let that get me down. I hope that doesn't upset anyone here either. There's no point for me to be upset at a fact of reality. I simply have to hold firm and walk my own path. I believe this just means we have more space to grow than they do, and I truly believe that we can become just as good as they are, through practice and hard work.

LSAT_Wrecker

I would offer sampling bias as well. We are in a space restricted mainly to people willing to dedicate time and effort to studying for a hard standarized test. The 7Sage population, as amazing as they all are, is not representative of a true cross-section of society.

eRetaker

Quote from LSAT Trainer: "May your curse in life be that your hard work is constantly mistaken for talent." It's one of my favorite quotes precisely because it highlights the fact that accomplished people aren't a product of being genetically more intelligent but that they work harder than most people behind the scenes. I started out as clueless on the LSAT and grinded for 7 months with 30-35 hrs/week of studying on top of 40 hrs/week of full time work. So I think your question should actually be "how are some of you working so hard?"

Harvey_l

Also, I purely believe hard work leads to success as well. If you truly work hard enough, you can achieve it. (Or come super close.)

The statement above comes from my own observations from my friends and my own testimony. (In HS I never tried and got mostly B's and C's, disappointing kid that people thought was going to fail in college. In college I tried, and my GPA is ~3.95/4.0.)

Adam Hawks

I'm not. Don't believe the hype.

keets993

It's true some people have amazing diagnostics. But we're only seeing the end of that journey, we don't know what life experiences led them to having that diagnostic. So, what could be the starting point for you could be the end of someone else's journey if that makes sense. In the end, yes it sucks. But it sucking won't help us score any better, all we can do is work hard and learn from this experience and try not to get too down about it.

Also, aside from 7sage, I've mainly seen people with diagnostics on the higher scale share their experiences. People who score 130s, 140s or low 150s are generally not as forthcoming of their diagnostic, whereas, obviously those with high 150s, low 160s and so forth are more likely to share.

AudaciousRed

This test has nothing to do with smartness. None. I rock an excellent gpa and passed a mensa test at 99% (not online, a real one). But the lsat throws me for a loop. My brain is naturally wired for out-of-the-box ideas and artistic endevours. I love puzzles, too. Not to say I dont have a mind for logic, but lsat pushes that to an extreme. But we can rewire things. We can learn. That may be why I'm in such a love/hate with this. It's finally something challenging that I have to work on.
I have a lame 154. June was cruel. My pt average was 158 before June. It's just time and effort for those us not specifically wired for one test. Of all the kids I saw in the gifted program in HS, only a few did anything with their lives. Because intelligence is nothing without action and the drive to do something with it. The kids that get into law school easily will be at a disadvantage the first time they hit something difficult.
Keep at it. We can do this.

a.ram005

In one word it's called meritocracy as explained through "upbringing, genetics, and personality type". These tests were created to keep certain people out of higher education and certain fields. Research has proven they are not a predictor of success so it's pretty bogus we're expected to put ourselves through so much to achieve a score to get into a school, when in reality some of the highest scorers actually don't finish law school. It drives me insane that I know I have to pay money in order to learn how to take this test. That means that others who cannot afford to do so will not be nearly as successful unless their cultural capital allows them to be by way of upbringing and who they are surrounded by / genetics. Le sigh. But alas, here I am, giving into the system.

cqas190517

@"a.ram005" said:
In one word it's called meritocracy as explained through "upbringing, genetics, and personality type". These tests were created to keep certain people out of higher education and certain fields. Research has proven they are not a predictor of success so it's pretty bogus we're expected to put ourselves through so much to achieve a score to get into a school, when in reality some of the highest scorers actually don't finish law school. It drives me insane that I know I have to pay money in order to learn how to take this test. That means that others who cannot afford to do so will not be nearly as successful unless their cultural capital allows them to be by way of upbringing and who they are surrounded by / genetics. Le sigh. But alas, here I am, giving into the system.

I noticed the same thing. This whole process is totally a gatekeeping measure to make sure only those with time. Resources and money get into law school. It’s an incredibly flawed system and once I’m actually working as a lawyer I look forward to crushing it so that others of lesser means can have a more equitable chance at becoming lawyers. I’m surprised more people don’t see that.

a.ram005

@cqas190517 100%, my background is in education with a focus on equity and all that did is make me mad I didn't go to law school earlier. Learning how screwed up the education system put me in all sorts of a mood. Still does. Still doing education work and frustrated every day watching students around me feel like they can't get ahead no matter what. I come from a family of law enforcement too and I know the system is broken, so if I make it out of the LSAT alive I plan to do criminal defense for the sake of protecting those who are often taken advantage of by the systemic nature. OR a million other things that need some fixing in education with relation to the law.

cqas190517

@"a.ram005" said:
@cqas190517 100%, my background is in education with a focus on equity and all that did is make me mad I didn't go to law school earlier. Learning how screwed up the education system put me in all sorts of a mood. Still does. Still doing education work and frustrated every day watching students around me feel like they can't get ahead no matter what. I come from a family of law enforcement too and I know the system is broken, so if I make it out of the LSAT alive I plan to do criminal defense for the sake of protecting those who are often taken advantage of by the systemic nature. OR a million other things that need some fixing in education with relation to the law.

Right there with you, but in a different sense. I plan to go into government law so that I can change the system from the inside and enact positive reforms. Then you'll see me running for POTUS (#sheehan2014) so we can fix this fucked up education system. Its one of my top three priorities, especially when you look at how other countries flourish compared to ours AND how political parties capitalize on using the education system to their benefit.

Sprinkles

@cqas190517 said:
I need to know the secrets of the “I can get a 180 while I’m a prisoner of a Chinese re-education camp suffering from dysintery, completely dehydrated, freezing, and without one arm” people. Some of you diagnostic’d at 172. lawd Jesus. I need these insights.

LOL, I used to feel the same. But the truth is, it's not about intelligence or lack thereof. It's simply due to what the individual had been exposed to their entire life or at least a good portion of it. I remember discussing this with @"Jonathan Wang" a while back and upon discovering he took the LSAT after just three months of prep and scored in the high 170s, he noted that it only took him that long because of what he was exposed to prior (debate team for many years, rigourous classes etc.) I soon realized that people who end up with a 170+ didn't all do so in the same time frame or even took the same path. He said, "so if you think about it, yes I studied for the LSAT in only 3 months, but if you add the work I put it in prior, it comes up to about 6 years of exposure ." Some people took less than a 6 months, some people took more than a year. That doesn't matter though, what matters and what is a common factor among top scores isHARD WORK. Lots of it. Jon also notes that among his students, he can tell who will make it far with the LSAT not depending on the timeframe but on how much dedication the student puts into learning the material. Also @keets993 is absoloutley right about people with lower diags not being as forthcoming with sharing their experience. It's unfortuante, because their experience can be a valuable resource of assurance for those of us who feel hopeless about this test.
So, OP, while I sympathize with your sentiment, it shouldn't be the factor that prevents you from giving this test your all. Focus on what you need to do and learn from other experiences, but don't let them decide your future!

Sprinkles

@cqas190517 said:

@"a.ram005" said:
In one word it's called meritocracy as explained through "upbringing, genetics, and personality type". These tests were created to keep certain people out of higher education and certain fields. Research has proven they are not a predictor of success so it's pretty bogus we're expected to put ourselves through so much to achieve a score to get into a school, when in reality some of the highest scorers actually don't finish law school. It drives me insane that I know I have to pay money in order to learn how to take this test. That means that others who cannot afford to do so will not be nearly as successful unless their cultural capital allows them to be by way of upbringing and who they are surrounded by / genetics. Le sigh. But alas, here I am, giving into the system.

I noticed the same thing. This whole process is totally a gatekeeping measure to make sure only those with time. Resources and money get into law school. It’s an incredibly flawed system and once I’m actually working as a lawyer I look forward to crushing it so that others of lesser means can have a more equitable chance at becoming lawyers. I’m surprised more people don’t see that.

This is exactly why JY founded pre probono/7sage in the first place. Here's an article from The Atlantic where he goes more in depth about it: https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2016/10/the-lsat-is-rigged-against-the-poor/504530/