Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

If you see two Group 4 Logical Indicators in one sentence

Hey guys, can someone please advise - If you see two group 4 logical indicators in one sentence - do you pick one idea and negate necessary?

Does it have the same concept as when you see both group 3 and group 4 indicators in one sentence.

Example- If you cannot (cannot- group 4) swim you are not (not - group 4) a Koala Bear-

Do we translate it into Lawgic as [S arrow K] or is it translated as usual [s/ arrow k/]

Thanks in advance
M

Comments

  • jasminesadejasminesade Alum Member
    249 karma

    Hi! If you see two group 4 indicators, in the case you illustrated we have "cannot" and "not" then it would be translated as /S then /K and the contrapositive K then S. Also, side note: it wouldn't really make sense to say if you can swim then you are a Koala bear. That would mean that the only things that can swim are Koala bears and the statement says that if you cannot swim then you are not a Koala bear, that doesn't mean when there's a double negative that it becomes completely a positive statement.

    But yes. Here is an example of a group 3 & 4 in the same sentence.
    "No X can be present without Y" would be diagrammed as : X then Y, if /Y then /X

  • 143 karma

    Thanks, could you please explain how you got to /S then /K.

    I thought when we have a group indicator, it is not treated as a negative so in the sentence-
    "If you cannot swim you are not a Koala." It would be S for swim, then take cannot as a group 4 indicator and negate necessary - which is- not Koala - thus making it to K. So the end result would be S then K no? Thanks

  • KeepCalmKeepCalm Alum Member
    807 karma

    I read a post in the past that is very similar to your question, here is the link :smile:

    https://7sage.com/discussion/#/discussion/10809/translating-a-sentence-with-2-group-4-indicators

    --
    I do not know exactly what the rule of thumb is, but in a situation where there are two Group 4 indicators in one sentence, I would just diagram them in the order that I read them:

    "If you cannot swim you are not a Koala Bear."

    (Lawgic): /S → /K

    (Contrapositive): K → S

    I do this because when there are two Group 4 indicators in one sentence, the rule to "pick either idea" does not effectively apply :disappointed: so I just focus on the order that the conditional statement is written: negating the sufficient condition followed by negating the necessary condition. I know this may seem overwhelming but please do not hesitate to let me know if this does not make sense! :smile:

  • jasminesadejasminesade Alum Member
    249 karma

    @Maka_Ogn said:
    Thanks, could you please explain how you got to /S then /K.

    I thought when we have a group indicator, it is not treated as a negative so in the sentence-
    "If you cannot swim you are not a Koala." It would be S for swim, then take cannot as a group 4 indicator and negate necessary - which is- not Koala - thus making it to K. So the end result would be S then K no? Thanks

    I think with practice and lots of diagramming it becomes intuitive and so I can't really explain it in technical terms, however, the way I got to K then S is by just taking the elements as they are and not applying the negate-necessary rule in this instance because if you do use the rule, it does not make sense. If S then K means that every thing that swims is a Koala, swimming is not sufficient but necessary for being a Koala bear.

    So back to just taking the elements as they are, this is how I did it:
    "If you cannot swim you are not a Koala."
    cannot swim = /S and not a Koala =/K
    /S then /K
    contrapositive is K then S

  • 143 karma

    Got it thank you for following up and explaining :smile: I truly appreciate it

Sign In or Register to comment.