Still struggling.

goalis180

I am now on timed PT's and still struggling with MBT questions and SA questions. I have only taken 3 PT's so far 19,20, 21. I'm BRing in the 160's w.o BRing RC if I were to be BRing RC, I would be in the 170's. Do you guys have any advice for me regarding MBT and SA? Also, is it worth BR'ing RC? When I do untimed RC passagesI don't really struggle considering I have all the time in the world.

c.janson35

If your goal is a 180, and I have weird feeling that it may be, then you should really not be short changing your BR. Assuming that a 160s BR would necessarily be a 170s BR if you did RC is sort of like calling a 65 foot putt from the fringe a gimme.

As far as your specific problem areas go, MBT questions really hinge on the ability to eliminate wrong answers. If the answers mention something not talked about or referred to in the stimulus, then there's no way we would have enough information to say that it must be true. Also, be careful of any term shifts and any combining of terms that don't go together. This is especially prevalent in the dense MBT stimuli. Really, you just have to have great POE skills for these questions, which can be honed in by drilling if it's not just coming intuitively (which often times it does not).

For SA: when you BR you have to have to have to take time to anticipate and predict the gap in the argument and with that what form the right answer is going to take. Develop this mindset in BR and never rush through the stimulus. This should really be done on all question types because it fosters a certain activeness while you read that it is essential to scoring high. Other than that, just drill these problem types for a little to see if things will start to click.

goalis180

@c.janson35 said:
If your goal is a 180, and I have weird feeling that it may be,

Lmao I love the humor on this forum. @c.janson35 I def don't POE on MBT questions I usually try to connect the ideas by either drawing out conditionals or underlining the quantifier terms. I usually struggle with the mbt questions that require connecting like 4+ ideas, I am decent at getting the MBT questions that don't connect ideas but, for lack of a better term, imply something in the passage. I will def try POE. As for SA does it just come down to predicting what the AC is?

c.janson35

If you're having trouble with the conditional heavy MBT then you may just want to focus on those specifically. Either way, POE is a great help by really focusing in on the answer choices because MBT is a high bar to pass.

As for your SA assumption question, I wouldn't say it just comes down to predicting the answer choice because I don't want to run the risk of oversimplifying these questions, but recognizing that a gap exists and articulating that gap will go a long way. When you drill (and if you don't, when you BR), focus on this specifically--don't take time into consideration. There may be a time where you do have to worry about how fast you're progressing through the section (although I'm of the opinion that proficiency solves all time problems so it's not something to specifically worry about), but it's certainly not while you're trying to develop the correct thought processes.

Matt1234567

Hi goalis180, aside from what c.janson said, I would recommend taking more recent PT's (36 and up) to more accurately represent the more recent exams. I used the older Pts to drill as to not waste any of the fresher copies for timed PTs.

goalis180

@c.janson35 Thanks. Any RC tips you can offer as well? This is my worst section. I am not totally worried though due to the fact that I have not drilled RC nor have I practiced it, so I expect to not be too great at it, but I am confident with practice I will get considerably better.

GordonBombay

As you do more PT's you will most likely start to see an improvement in your RC scores. I didn't really do much "prep" for RC but have seen an improvement now that I have done over 15 PT's. As you do more RC sections you should start to have a pretty good idea about what questions they might ask, which makes you read with more purpose during the initial read of the passage.

goalis180

I plan on taking all the PT's from 19+, reason being I want to make sure I solidify my fundamental skills before I move on to the recent ones. @Matt1234567 I have a few of my friends who scored from 171-175, and they were informing me that after learning the fundamentals, PTing and going over the answers is probably the best way. I was talking to them, and they were telling me that they gained the most knowledge from doing timed PT's.

goalis180

@GordonBombay If you do not mind me asking what is your current PT section scores, and what made RC click for you besides just repetition.

c.janson35

In regards to RC, there's a lot of good advice out there floating around in the forums, so I'll offer some of my own advice that I've given before, and give you a link to a thread with a lot of great stuff:

There really is no secret formula to acing the RC section, and I would guess that most of the advice hinges on the same stuff mixed in with some new terminology so that it feels fresh. RC boils down to understanding what you read, that's it. No scale or trademarked terminology can substitute for a lot of practice. Read each paragraph on its own terms, summarize what you've read, predict what you anticipate the author will talk about next, and then relate the paragraph and its main point to the main point of the passage as a whole. Note the authors opinion throughout, no matter how subtle, and how the argument progresses. Ask yourself, "why is the author taking the time to tell me about this? Why is it important to him or her? And why is this important to me?" A good exercise to help develop this mindset is, after you've read a passage while drilling, pretend you have to teach the passage to someone who hasn't read it, and do so without looking back to the passage to just read important lines. Describe the passage on your own terms, because if you can't speak about the passage without referring back to it, then you really didn't comprehend it all that much. You'll see how this forces you to really sort out what's important, what's the main point, and how the author feels, all while not getting too bogged
down in the details.


http://7sage.com/discussion/#/discussion/3278/how-to-improve-reading-speed-on-rc

nicole.hopkins

@goalis180 said:
Also, is it worth BR'ing RC?

Yes! You gotta learn to pick the meat off the bones with questions and to dig deep into reasoning structure of passages, as well as what exactly the questions want you to do vis a vis your reading.

Keep in mind that RC in the earlier tests is considered to be "easier" than later tests, so the challenge should be expected to pick up as you progress through PT's.

nicole.hopkins

@c.janson35 said:
If your goal is a 180, and I have weird feeling that it may be, then you should really not be short changing your BR.

Thumbs way up BR is where the deep learning happens, my friend. And if you've got a high goal, you'd better be prepared to go deep.

goalis180

@c.janson35 I feel like it might be the time and the feeling of pressure while doing the RC passages. I BR'd 8 passages and missed nothing, and on those 8 passages I read the passages thoroughly and answered every question but 2 with out even having to look back at the passage. Its weird I know exactly what to look for, I pick up all the importanf info, but I just get too caught up on time and then just kind of get lost I guess. @nicole.hopkins I agree with you. When I BR LR and LG I feel like I gain so much insight, but with RC im kind of like "ok, well I read the passage and saw the answers."

Pacifico

But that's the whole point. Even with inference questions in RC there is support somewhere to be extracted and BR helps to better train you to find it. Proper BR teaches you how to separate the wheat from the chaff and learn to look for what each question really wants.

Your thoughts about RC BR could are a common refrain about BR and fool proofing for LG but that doesn't mean it's not helpful. BR overall is about taking the time and pressure out of the equation to measure your skills, just because it is harder to do that in LR doesn't mean that it isn't worthwhile in the other sections.

goalis180

@Pacifico said:
But that's the whole point. Even with inference questions in RC there is support somewhere to be extracted and BR helps to better train you to find it.

@Pacifico I think im not seeing the bigger picture because im only on my 3rd PT. Thank you guys, I will be back after my 10th-15th PT.

GordonBombay

@goalis180 When I first started PTing after finishing the 7sage core curriculum I was usually performing around -10 or -11 in RC. I eventually (after 10+ PT's) was able to perform around -4 or -6. As of late (PT's 70 and up) I've seen my RC scores take a step backwards (-8 on my most recent), but the consensus that I've heard is that RC has become a bit more difficult in these more recent PT's.

Other than just repetition and familiarity with what questions might be asked, I would say I've become much better (and quicker) at process of elimination. On any given question 2 or even 3 of the answer choices can be totally wrong based on what the question asks you to do. Being able to do this has allowed me to really focus in on which remaining answers are right, and also move through questions more quickly so that I can go back and review questions that I was iffy about.