group 3 rules pt 52 g3

lenelson2

Hey! So I think I'm confusing myself but the game states: Telemarketing will not be given until both Goals and Objections have been given.
then the next rule:
Negotiating will not be given until Persuasion has been given.

I thought I could make both Telemarketing and Negotiating the sufficient, negate them, then make the others the necessary...Why is that not the case?

Thanks in advance for your help!

DumbHollywoodActor

This is a sequence game. The “until” isn’t so much a logical indicator as sequential indicator. In other words, G and O are before T.

and P is before T

lenelson2

Of course! I knew I was looking at it in a funky way. Thanks!

lenelson2

@DumbHollywoodActor
So when it's a one layer sequencing game..the logical indicators become more of sequential indicators? Is that the same as a biconditional? pt 53 g2 say's that "Green's design is presented either at some time before Jackson's or at some time after Liu's, but not both." Even though it's a biconditional, we should think of it more as g is before L,J or Gis after L,J. Thanks!

DumbHollywoodActor

Exactly! I think of that as either both J and L are before G or J and L are after G.

lenelson2

In sequencing, how do you know that G is before both J and L? and vice versa? How you worded it is confusing me...Thanks for all you help!

DumbHollywoodActor

@lenelson2 said:
Green's design is presented either at some time before Jackson's or at some time after Liu's, but not both.

It’s a biconditional.
G----J <----> /(L-----G)
But /(L----G) essentially means G----L so...
G ----- J <----> G ---- L
In other words, If G is before J, then G is before L
AND
If G is before L then G is before J. That is what a biconditional means. See http://7sage.com/lesson/advanced-bi-conditionals/

But if /(G ------ L) then /(G ------ J) or If L ----- G then J ----- G

and If J ----- G then L ----- G.

That’s incredibly long winded, so we can shorten it by

either (both J and L) ------- G or (J and L) ------ G

lenelson2

Thank you so much! And by the way the LSAT Trainer has changed my life. It breaks it down in a very understandable way and I feel much more confident already analyzing assumptions in arguments. I'm slowly making my way off the struggle bus!