Application

aryek

Do people usually have applications done and ready before taking their LSAT exam and then wait until they get their scores back to submit or how does the process go? I know submitting as soon as you can is best considering a lot of schools do rolling but could you technically submit your application before you get your score? Or to take it a step further, can you submit an application even though you plan to take the test a second time and just update the school?

Pacifico

Your app won't be LSAC complete without a score so there's no point in trying that. You need a score to get your app evaluated so having your app done prior to score release is the way to go. You can always update a score to a school later on but if your first score is low enough to get you dinged then it's better to wait until the second score is in.

MrSamIam

@Pacifico I've always been told to have the apps ready prior to sitting the LSAT. However, I never saw any sense in doing so, for the reason you listed. There is no point in having them ready months in advance, if it won't be submitted until 3 weeks after you sit the LSAT - assuming, of course that scores are released after 3 weeks.
Unless of course law schools like to see that you've started them early.

Pacifico

The sense is that life gets in the way and those weeks evaporate faster than you think. Also, you should be putting a decent amount of time into your PS/Resume/DS/essays/addenda and that will take longer than those three weeks. There is no reason not to do them in advance so it is just minor tweaks once you finish the test to get ready for gray day. If you wait until after the LSAT I guarantee you won't be submitting the best possible apps you could otherwise if you had taken the time to do them right, or you won't submit on gray day so you'll end up being late into January getting everything in.

lsatings

@MrSamIam said:
Unless of course law schools like to see that you've started them early.

Law schools don't see when you've started them. And even if they did this is besides the point. The idea is that you get your applications done sooner and spend more time on them, so when you take the LSAT and get your score you're ready to submit your materials.

MrSamIam

@Pacifico Oh no, that's not what I meant by starting the application after sitting the test. Of course you should have your PS, LORs, and resume ready beforehand. I meant that there isn't really any point in "starting" the application itself. The aforementioned should be ready to submit, after minor tweaking like you stated, well in advanced.

@LSATsagha Then why do some law schools recommend "at least starting the application" before you can even submit it? I don't mean to be sarcastic, I am genuinely curious. I was informed by one or two schools that it's good to get one foot through the door, even if you're not ready to submit the application. I just never saw any sense in doing so - I would rather spend my time working on my PS and resume, have everything ready to submit, then start the applications. Personal preference, I guess - I'm also not applying to 20+ schools.
Edit: After taking a moment to think about your "...take more time on them.." statement, I see why starting a tad early would be beneficial.
Either way, I made a rule for myself: Don't bother looking at applications until you've PTed your target score (+-3) at least 7 times.

Pacifico

Well the other point is that you don't know what is on the apps from year to year until you open them and actually start them. And since LSAC auto-fills a ton of stuff well you can't really help but start the application once you open it. Plus you may not get to use the same PS for all schools if they are restrictive. I wrote an awesome PS and only got to submit it to about two thirds of the schools that I applied to because of their restrictions. But hey, procrastinate away bro.

asfjy

I have no familiarity with this process at all. When could you potentially start an application? I suppose it depends on when the school opens the process but is there a general timeline?

Pacifico

You can start apps as soon as they open for each year, which is usually between 1 August and 1 October for matriculation the following fall, almost without exception. The vast majority are 1 or 15 September. You can always get resumes/PS/DS/addenda started prior to that if you do your homework to see what most schools are looking for.

lsatings

@MrSamIam said:
"at least starting the application" before you can even submit it?

It's honestly just so you can get a head start on it. The idea is that if you at least open the application, you can see what is required to submit, what the optional essays are, deadlines, etc. I wrote a personal statement to one school and then tried to submit it to other schools until I realized I couldn't because they had different requirements. So I had to go back and do a lot more work to standardize it so I could submit it to all my schools instead of writing a new one. That took a lot of time, and if I hadn't opened the application I wouldn't have known otherwise.

Plus, there are people (maybe like you) who already have all their materials ready and submit their materials/fill out their applications on the same day. Schools know that just because you opened your application sooner doesnt mean that you've been working on it longer. It's not an issue of procrastination/work quality (they can determine how long youve worked on your application just by reading your essays). But its so that 1 - you know the system is working for you 2 - youre aware of the different essay/application requirements and 3 - there are no unexpected surprises 4 - for many people it helps to have the application open sooner as they work through it gradually.
It's not an issue of 'they started the app on x date and finished it on y date' and for the most part, schools have administrative assistants print out all the application materials, sift through it, and send it to different deans to look through. So with the printed application they wont know if you've started it early or not. It's just for your own benefit.

lsatings

I accidentally double posted my comment and idk how to delete. Ignore this.

MrSamIam

@Pacifico I am not procrastinating. I just happen to be one of those people who is taking far longer than expected to nail down the LSAT. Part of the reason I have not started my applications yet is because I already spend 10+ hours a day, 7 days a week studying for the LSAT. Most of my free time is spent working. If I manage to hit my target score, and score it consistently a month or two prior to the test, I will certainly start my applications. Either way, there's no sense in starting my application early if I don't even have the LSAT score to get into the school.
Regardless, I'm not the type to procrastinate.

@LSATsagha Ah that makes more sense. Thank you. I think I was just misinformed.


Edit: I probably should have stated this before. Prior to studying for the LSAT, my goal was to have my applications ready to submit at least 2 weeks before test day. Unfortunately, I underestimated the test. Hence why I said that applying early may not be the best option for me.

asifie

LSATsagha, thanks for that info. I have a very simple understanding of what's required generally but have no idea what individualized requirements to expect. I think planning well in advance would be a great idea. Is there an accurate way I can find out what I can specifically expect before the applications open up fairly late in the summer?

kennedybj

@MrSamIam said:
I already spend 10+ hours a day, 7 days a week studying for the LSAT

This might be counter-productive

lsatings

@asifie said:
Is there an accurate way I can find out what I can specifically expect before the applications open up fairly late in the summer?

Yes. Make a list of schools you are applying to, then do research. Go to the school's official website and look at what they have written under personal statement, etc. then sign into LSAC (you may need to sign up first!) and "start" an application (you in no way need to submit it -- I'm not applying this year and already have an application opened for every school I'm applying to) and just look through the different pages/requirements. You can also call/email the school directly and ask questions.

I made a spreadsheet for myself with the school I am applying to, the essential documents (personal statement/diversity statement) information, and another column about optional essays/materials I can submit and what their requirements are so I have it as a reference point as I work through the rest of my apps.

What this entire process really comes down to is research. So, once you get the ball rolling and get the necessary information you need by going onto the school website/browsing through LSAC, you'll have a better picture of what is expected of you. You may start developing more questions about your applications/application process, but they will start become more specific as you understand everything more, which is a good thing.

lsatings

@MrSamIam said:
Hence why I said that applying early may not be the best option for me.

At the end of the day, it's your application so you do your research, and then call all the shots. If not starting the application yet is what makes the most sense to you then go ahead and follow through on it. There are pros/cons to doing that, which you already have been made aware of in the above conversation. It's your application, so it's your call.

lsatings

@MrSamIam said:
I just happen to be one of those people who is taking far longer than expected to nail down the LSAT.

Also, sorry about the crazy amount of comments but I just read this -- you may be in a good position to apply next year if this is the case for you. That's what happened to me: I greatly underestimated the test and planned on applying this fall. I finished my essays, got my letters of rec in, finished my resume (which was several pages -- I have been working for years in different capacities and also did a lot of academic work) and had just a few months for lsat left. At this point, Im just aiming to have the LSAT completed by June and then be ready to submit everything in September. It's easier this way: you can submit early apps, even apply ED if you want, and submit your applications early enough to maybe snag a scholarship or two. It might be something worth considering.

aoiao

Do you guys give personal statements/ essays/ other material you plan on submitting to schools to those writing your LoR too? Or is that discouraged. Also, are you able to read a given LoR to decide among the ones you have which one to submit?

Pacifico

You can definitely give recommenders anything that you think might help them write a more complete and awesome LOR. Being able to read the LORs is a bit of a crapshoot and you would have to be supplied with a copy by the recommender because once it is submitted you will never see it if you waive your rights to, otherwise you can access it once you're in law school. Generally speaking, professors are not likely to allow you to read an LOR as a matter of professional ethics within academia though there are exceptions, it all depends on how seriously an individual recommender takes such matters. Employers are a much different beast and so there is a much broader spectrum of people that will or won't be cool with such arrangements. However, it should be noted that you should already know which ones will be good and which ones won't be as good based on your relationship with the recommended and their enthusiasm in agreeing to write one for you.

lsatings

@aoiao said:
Do you guys give personal statements/ essays/ other material you plan on submitting to schools to those writing your LoR too? Or is that discouraged. Also, are you able to read a given LoR to decide among the ones you have which one to submit?

I always provide essays as a reference for letter writers. A lot of times it shows them you're applying seriously and have already completed crucial parts of your application and that it isnt a whim you may back out of. If done right, it also gives your writers more information on you as an applicant that they may not have otherwise gauged from their professional relationship with you.

I don't know if you are able to read the letters or not -- it usually depends on the relationship you have with your writer (despite signing the waiver). If you are close to your writers, like I am with mine, you can request that they add certain information in your letters to close out any gaps in your application. I could ask to read mine, but I decided that I 1- trust my writers, and 2- would rather not know. But, I think I'm able to do this because I know that they'd do a good job (I became very very good friends with my professor who wrote one of my letters and I go to parties/dinners with her all the time, for example). I have friends who have requested letters from professors or supervisors that they've been hesitant about, so if you are in that position I would suggest meeting more often with that writer and give them more information/offer to provide anecdotes, etc so that they have more information to go off of when producing the letter. Don't overwhelm them, and use your judgement in determining how willing or capable they are.

I had a strong relationship with one of my professors, for example, but she had told me that in one quarter alone she was asked by 200 different students to write letters of recommendation, so I knew she was rushed. Despite being very good friends with her even after graduation, I knew that there might have been a chance that she may not produce a letter that is law school quality so I sent her an email with some information that she *could* include in the letter (you never want to sound forceful towards someone who is recommending you, or even come across as though you're suggesting they don't know how to do their job) and included a list of character attributes that law schools are looking for in applicants (based off of extensive reading + research that I had done).

So, if you're trying to select letters based off of strength, haven't seen the letter, and suspect some writer of being on the weaker end: instead of suffering the consequences of a bad letter, you can try to head it off by offering assistance to your writer before hand. At the very least, you'll feel more comfortable by the time its ready to submit applications and you know that you may have done something to make your letters stronger.