How much can I imporve my LSAT?

DropItLikeItsLHot

I know this is a common topic, however I'm new to this forum sooooo I figured I might as well share my diagnostic and see if anyone has any advice or encouragement:) I still have a couple more years of undergrad to go before I apply to law school. I wrote a diagnostic the other day and scored a 140:( I need a 160 to get into a certain school because my GPA will probably be around 3.9 out of 4.0! I will have about 8 months to study when the time comes. Has anyone here gone from around 140 to 160, or know of anyone who has?

danielznelson

A twenty point increase on PTs is not out of the question, and I, along with many others, have achieved such an increase.

While a twenty point jump from 140 to 160 seems daunting, it is I think different than say, a similar increase from 150 to 170. Learning the fundamentals, mastering (or at least coming close to it) logic games, and being able to quickly identify question types, premises/conclusions, et cetera, gives you a very probable chance of scoring at the 160+ mark.

Getting that increase in eight month's time won't be a gimmie, but I think it's doable, and you have every right and reason to shoot for that increase in that amount of time.

May I ask how you scored on the individual sections?

Alex

@x2016mms ,

I'll echo what @danielznelson said. You can absolutely, one hundred percent, can increase your score. I know someone who went from a 139 to a 168. Granted, that took 2 years of prep, but still totally doable.

Don't put get trapped in the paradigm of only "having 8 months to study." You have your goal; 160. So let that be your goal. You will get there!

Also, you have a chance at a great GPA and an amazing LSAT. Why set your goal only at a 160? Aim high and see if you can get a full ride, or possibly even options of attending schools you might not have considered.... Just some food for thought

I truly believe you can increase from 140 to 160. I think 15-20 point increases are very common for those who are willing to dedicate the time and energy into it!

DropItLikeItsLHot

Thanks guys! My individual scores were: LR #1 11/25, LR#2 11/25, RC15/27 and then LG was 4/23 I believe! I wrote a second one shortly after (untimed) just to see how I could do and the LR went way up! Obviously that's because of the extra time but at least I know I am capable of understanding them, just need to work on timing:) I just feel kinda discouraged tho, ya know? Alex and Daniel, those were very kind words and I already do feel more encouraged, and I mean that. Alex, to answer your question as to why I only aim for 160, it's a lack of confidence, a lack of belief... I see all these posts online about how the LSAT isn't learnable and such so getting to 160 seems almost impossible enough. Although, I feel as though a course can get me into the 150's, and then perhaps I could grind on my own to get higher? I guess its just, when you get such a low diagnostic...it makes you feel dumb you know?

Sprinkles

A diagnostic doesn't mean much- plenty of 170 scorers have diagnosed in the 140s. You'll be fine when the time comes to study if you give it your all. I love how you're doing this when you still have two years left of undergrad haha, I feel like you're so young and I mean that in the nicest way possible It's normal to have a low cold diagnostic because the LSAT truly is such a foreign concept to many of us, especially Logic Games *shivers*. If I were you I'd honestly focus more on keeping up that killer GPA and try your hardest to maintain or start good relationships with your professors so when it comes time for those letters of recommendation, you won't feel trapped in terms of who to contact and not knowing if they'll accept the invite to write a letter or if it will even be a good one! those letters have an impact on your application!

Sprinkles

@"Alex Divine" said:
Also, you have a chance at a great GPA and an amazing LSAT. Why set your goal only at a 160? Aim high and see if you can get a full ride, or possibly even options of attending schools you might not have considered.... Just some food for thought

Precisely! Thanks for pointing this out Alex

DropItLikeItsLHot

Thanks montaha! Fine words of wisdom my friend! I forgot to ask this, will my speed also be able to improve a lot? Like I sucked at that part haha!! I didn't finish a single section, I ran out of time on all 4!

Sprinkles

@x2016mms said:
it's a lack of confidence, a lack of belief... I see all these posts online about how the LSAT isn't learnable and such so getting to 160 seems almost impossible enough. Although, I feel as though a course can get me into the 150's, and then perhaps I could grind on my own to get higher? I guess its just, when you get such a low diagnostic...it makes you feel dumb you know?

Omg...this was @"Alex Divine" and I before we discovered 7sage lol. Noooo, you got it all wrong! the LSAT is totally conquerable, it took me two years to come to terms with that, and I don't want you wasting precious time like I did. Don't set the bar so low, you'll see for yourself what maintaining a good study routine with good material can do for you! just browse around this forum, you'll see many people who thought their level best was a 165 at most scoring in the upper 170s! I'm not paid to say this I promise (although maybe I should hehehe @"Dillon A. Wright" LOL jokes!) but 7sage truly changed my mindset and ambition when it came to destroying the LSAT...there's many courses and material out there that simply make matters worse when it comes to studying which can derail your thought process, but that's just not the case with 7sage. JY makes the curriculum so attainable for anyone so long as they put the work into it! You have what it takes to score so high on the LSAT, you just have to know how to utilize the material that you come across.

Sprinkles

@x2016mms said:
, will my speed also be able to improve a lot?

Ohhh yes indeed! I'm going to summarize wise words from Josh @"Cant Get Right" again, he said timing and understanding of the material go hand in hand....once you get a good grasp of the material, the timing should accompany that.

DropItLikeItsLHot

Wow i'm loving this forum already you're all so helpful!!! This is incredibly encouraging wow haha.... I would only be able to do 7sage online, would that still suffice?

Sprinkles

@x2016mms said:
I would only be able to do 7sage online, would that still suffice?

It better suffice because that's the only way to be a 7sager! :P (there's no on-site course lol)

Alex

@x2016mms said:
Wow i'm loving this forum already you're all so helpful!!! This is incredibly encouraging wow haha.... I would only be able to do 7sage online, would that still suffice?

Yup! only online... That's how I felt too, it only gets better

DropItLikeItsLHot

oh haha that's awesome dude!! So you really think that will be fully worth the price?

lamidgorden

Dude, it's totally plausible to increase that much. The first time I took one without practice and bombed. My first practice test after a month or so on 7sage I got a 165. Just got a 173 on the second one I took. Just put the effort in man and you'll get it.

DropItLikeItsLHot

Thanks man! I've been seeing the LSAT as this....impossible, unchangeable thing where your score is concrete after one test...I had no idea this much improvement could be achieved!

Alex

@x2016mms said:
oh haha that's awesome dude!! So you really think that will be fully worth the price?

I can't tell you how much 7Sage changed the entire trajectory of my LSAT prep. It is absolutely worth it! I think I would pay double or triple knowing what I know now about how amazing and effective the 7Sage course is... There is something very unique about J.Y. Ping's (the founder and instructor) approach to teaching the LSAT. It is actually fun, as crazy as it sounds, I look forward to doing my daily lessons. Also, he is talented at using real-life examples to explain the concepts. For example, he uses Star War references and Dragon Ball Z. It is small stupid stuff on the sufferance, but when you learn it like that, you never forget.

There is also something immensely invaluable in watching questions be solved in real time by someone who has mastered the test like J.Y.

And take it from me, I spent over two months this summer going through Kaplan, Manhattan, Powerscore; you name it, and I thought at one point it was going to be the magic bullet.

And I admit I did learn from fundamentals from Powerscore and Manhattan, but once I started 7Sage my understanding of the LSAT complete changed. My LG score went from -16 to -4 in about 4 weeks. Now, YMMV, but the philosophies behind 7Sage (Blind review, fool-proof, memory method) these are things that actually work. They aren't magic bullets to a 180, but if you put in the work, they work.

I could go on and on. Definitely let me know if you have any specifics...But if you can't tell, I'm a 7Sage convert and LOVE the course and the community that comes with it

Sprinkles

@x2016mms said:
So you really think that will be fully worth the price?

I know of so many courses that cost triple what 7sage costs and the material is total crap...I am a victim of Princeton Review, paid nearly 1 thousand dollars for only a 2 month online course that met like twice a week, and ended up wasting two valuable LSAT takes with very low scores (first with PR second with Powerscore). I was literally depressed but still wanted to take the LSAT because becoming an attorney is truly a dream of mine...thankfully I decided to give 7sage a shot and I know this is the best decision I've made for my LSAT prep. The amount I learned within 1 month surpassed anything I learned from a PR course.

danielznelson

I don't swear, but if I were to ever do so, I'd save it for the types claiming the LSAT is learnable. So many doors have been closed because of stupid advice from careless, naive, and uninspiring people. I took my cold diagnostic at a Kaplan-sponsored event at my university, and the Kaplan instructor told me that I could expect an increase in my score by about five points. I've now achieved a 20+ increase and still have not hit my ceiling.

The LSAT is unlike almost any other test in that it is essentially testing you on a language - the language of logic. The fact you feel stupefied is about as normal the reaction of someone being tested on an unknown, foreign language for four hours. You likely don't understand or know anything of conditional logic, causation, bi-conditionals, contrapositives, degrees of validity, the differences between necessary and sufficient assumptions, the differences between "most strongly supported" and "must be true," basic conditional diagramming, advanced conditional diagramming, chaining conditional diagramming, existential quantifiers, logical indicators and their respective groups, negation, what it means to weaken an argument as opposed to weakening a premise, intersection relationships... I could go on. Of course your score is going to be lower when you know nothing of these concepts. Once you start learning the fundamentals of the LSAT, everything will begin to change.

Mastering Logic Games is generally the easiest to master of all the section types. It is at least the easiest to progress in. Even getting only within a few points of a perfect score on LG would have given you somewhere between a 10-15 point increase, I imagine. And timing is a killer at first; again, you have no idea what you're doing, so of course you'll be slow.

I think you should feel fine with where you are at, especially because your biggest weakness is what is generally the most learnable, if only due to the fact that it's what most initially know the least of - that, and it's the most mechanical of the sections.

danielznelson

Man now my blood is boiling at the thought of fools bringing down people who could see so much improvement on the LSAT. I'm going to tear up some logic games to cool myself down.

Sprinkles

@danielznelson said:
Man now my blood is boiling at the thought of fools bringing down people who could see so much improvement on the LSAT. I'm going to tear up some logic games to cool myself down.

LOOOOOOOL, I 1+ everything you said btw! very nicely written.

DropItLikeItsLHot

I have no idea what any of that means but it makes me feel a lot better knowing how little I know jeez!! I had no idea there was so many...whatever those things are called (concepts?) to writing the LSAT?!?!

knightalex321

Just bust your ass. Make this test your life and stop worrying about how others score. Your first test is in no way representative of your potential.

Sprinkles

You'll learn plenty I'm sure of it lol

Cant Get Right

Looks like everyone has you covered but just to reinforce, I'll go ahead and jump in too.

People who say the LSAT isn't learnable are the people who haven't made the effort to learn it. The unique thing about the LSAT is that they give you all of the information you need to answer each question. You really don't bring in any outside knowledge. You just need to learn how to read the information you're given. That's about the most learnable test I've ever heard of. It is just incredibly difficult to learn it.

The LSAT tests so much more than just your understanding of the underlying concepts. It tests your ability to overcome an obstacle in your way. The people who get high LSAT scores aren't the smartest people or the people who start out with the best understanding of formal logic. They're the people who will do whatever it takes to achieve their goals, who will never stay down when they get knocked on their ass, and who have the discipline and determination to see it through to the end. If you're one of those people, I guarantee you can bridge that gap and more.