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Just got PT 83. 178 avg PT; choked on real LSAT. help?!
HarvardHopeful
Free Trial Member
Title says it mostly.
I’ve [unfortunately] done all of the PTS in the 50-80s. Used the 30s & 40s for drills. Haven’t really touched PT 1-29. From what I’ve read, 1-29 are pretty useless as anything besides drilling, so it seems that all I have to work with is PT 83 - Dec. 2017 PT - which I got in the mail today!!! Unless someone can reassure me that taking PR 1-29 as full timed test will be beneficial? Please please please please please....]
So here’s my story & my questions.
My PR average for PR 70 - 82 was a 178. I sat in December & choked. A good score, but below not my PT average. I blanked out on RC. kinda froze on LR. skipped. guessed. anxiety got the best of me & I predicted I’d get between a 165 & 170. I got a 168.
Luckily I took the sabbath test, so the released PT 83 is brand new for me. However, I don’t know what to do to prep for my retake in February...
• since I had a good handle on it PTing up to December what do I do to stay fresh and afloat before 1) taking PT 83 & more importantly 2) sitting again in Feb? How do I even study before the PT or test. [Unfortunatley sabbath tests being unreleased I have no clue how exactly I did on individual sections.
• as I previously questioned - can I benfit from taking, & at this point should I even take, any exams between 1-29 as full length PTs?
• Should I just not take PT 83 since my average is solid? What if I do poorly and shake my confidence?
- there are no red spell check squiggly lines, so sorry for the errors.
Comments
I don't really get what kind of studying there could be for someone who was PTing at 178. I can't imagine someone with such mastery of the material would somehow forget it in a couple of months. Just keep your skills sharp with timed sections; there's nothing wrong with using 1-29 for that.
Were you practicing with realistic test conditions? Unless you had a history of test anxiety, I do find it odd that you had a 10 point decrease from your PT average. How many pts did you practice with
Have you taken any PTs since you sat for the December test?
Yea. That’s how I feel about. What kinds of studying really. I’m more concerned of getting an uncharacteristically low PT & that being bad. No real benefit to taking a full PT. Thanks. Skills sharp w PT 1-29 sections is a great idea.
Yep. Realistic test taking conditions. I did in an open room at a public library. So it’s mostly quiet w the background shuffling and coughing etc. Timed. Breaks. Whole 9 yards.
Yes. I have PTSD & ADHD. I also have generalized anxiety & terrible test taking anxiety - BUT i have coping mechanisms that worked my entire academic career. & had I been at my worse I would have bombed it. So I have learned to cope & to have gotten a 168 vs 120 - shows that the coping isn’t completely ineffective. However, the 10 point drop is 100% due PTSD/anxiety in addition to the expected couple of points test day decrease from PT.
Nope. I’ve taken none Bc 1) I had already taken all of 50-82 - didn’t have anything new & I remember 100% of the tough questions from all past PTs. As soon as I see them again I know the answer from previously getting it wrong. Whenever I redo PT, even several weeks later, i usually get an inaccurate 180 score. I think that may be what’s referred to here as blind review? Except not immediately after the first take? Idk. Also:
2) I had drilled with all of 30-49
3) didn’t want to waste my time PTing w 1-29 due to the rumored ineffectvitiy.
Also - I just didn’t know if I’d had reached a point of diminishing returns where PTs are completely useless & potentially damaging since I’m firmly in the 175+ range w PTs.
I imagine a lot of eyerolls about my “high” PT average and not too low actual score.
But I’ve compleltely self studied. No course, no Tutor & I was just off On test day - so I appreciate any input. Thanks all.
I guess if anyone has any anxiety reducing tips - that may be as helpful as actual study guidance. Ugh.
If that's the case, using 1-29 might not be a bad idea. It might not be as accurate as a test from the 70s or 80s, but I think they're still similar enough to get a good idea of where you're at currently. FWIW, my test scores aren't that different between the old and new tests.
@HarvardHopefull I'm sorry to hear about your condition. Have you considered accomodated testing? Also a 168 is a damn good score, but you are definitely capable of shooting closer to your average. Has medication been helping you in thr coping process.
It sounds to me like you don't need a PT to see where you are testing, but just need PTs to stay fresh. 1-30 will work fine for that.
I got a 180 on a retake of a 172 so there is no eye rolling here. It is just that I had a very straightforward route to improve. I was PTing at 173 for my first take and needed improvement on logic games. I'm not sure what advice to give you since you just need to manage the anxiety better.
It is possible that managing stress will just be easier on your second test. I felt like it was a little easier for me on my retake just because I really knew I could always take again, but I didn't have a huge stress problem to begin with. If that is the case you just need to stay relatively in form. However, it is also possible that you need to learn to manage your anxiety better and I don't really know how to help you on that.
People here have often found meditation to be of use, but I'm not sure it would work for you specifically.
Finally, don't expect a couple of points drop off on the actual test. Expect to get in the same range you PT in. If anxiety brings that down then that makes sense, but other than that I don't think it is somehow true that your actual score needs to be lower than your PT as long as you are simulating real conditions. My first test was one point lower than my average and my second a couple points higher.
One thing I did which may or may not be a good practice in general was to take PTs when I was stressed. When, my parents had been fighting, when there was a death in my extended family, when I felt anxious about Law School, ect, I used it as an opportunity to see how my PT scores held up to stress. Eventually, the LSAT began to feel sort of like my calm space within the storm of life. I'm not sure this would be a good practice for someone with more severe test anxiety, but it worked for me.
That is great to know!!!!!!! I’ve tried so hard to find even a glimmer of hope about older PT being good for even a tiny bit more than strictly drilling thanks !!!
Since the test isn’t months & months away & I don’t have a crap ton of time, I’ll use a couple of 1-29 to drill & resharpen since I haven’t looked at a single thing since since the December sitting. I’ll do a good amount of 1-29 as full time - not too much, I want to avoid burning out, & then I’ll take PT 83 a couple weeks before feb test. W w couple weeks to spare at that point, I’ll mostly rest my brain & stay sharp w drills like you mentioned. Since I am PTing my target score, I think the one thing I shouldn’t do is Back to back intense PTing right up until practically Test day as Some people seem do.
Sounds like a good plan. You're already PT'ing about as good as one can hope to be. At this point, you just need to make sure to get enough practice in to stay sharp, but not too much that you burn out.
Best of luck
Thanks for the encouragement!
So - I only recently heard about accommodations. Too late for feb. It seems overwhelmingly involved - but like a potentially good idea.
I love that it’s an option. People need it. Heck, I may need it. I love that people utilize it. It’s important to level the playing field. For me personally, I would say I wouldn’t I worry about going into law school and the legal field, will I be accommodated in my career - no. I’ll have to hone & rely on my coping skills.
Coping does not include meds. I wish I could. I have tried but. There just a weird thing about battling ADHD & PTSD concurrently. ADHD meds trigger my anxiety in the most uncontrollable, uncomfortable, full blown way. Anxiety meds - idk how to explain. They quiet my anxious mind in a way that my ADHD really comes out to play - full blown and unhindered by meds.
Taking them together - anxiety meds dull my brain, ADHD meds make me hyper focus. Bc brain is Dull, I hyper focus on irrelevant things, get sleepy, end up over analyzing the questions & confidently picking the wrong one.
@HarvardHopefull
Have you done PT C2? It's a test that was previously undisclosed but mostly likely a PT from the 60s series. It may be something to consider taking since you're all out of the newer tests.
I did not! That’s good to know!
After some drilling from PT1-29 to re-sharpen, I’ll do maybe one PT in the 20s, then I’ll take PT C2 before taking PT 83.
soo
1) a little drilling from PT 1-29
2) one full length PT in the 20s
3) PT C2 w a 5th section from PT1-29
4) PT 83 w 5th section ^^^^
5] the week or two after PT 83, very light / minor drilling before Feb exam.
That was gold!
Take the LSAT stressed. I literally do the opposite. I’ll skip a planned PT day if I’m feeling jittery. I never thought of that. The jitters would be like real test day LSAT bootcamp! Should have capitalized on it - not too late. No shortage of stress & jitters over here. I didn’t sleep well the night before either so I’ll PT jittery and a little sleepy.
I’ll still do some stress relieving techniques on test day: try my utmost to make sure I’m rested, no coffee, meditate.
Also - honestly a mild game changer to hear your approach that i Shouldn’t expect point drop. That seemed to be gospel on all these LSAT forums. & sure, maybe it happens to most people most of the time ... but why should I EXPECT it? Expectations are powerful - so I’ve chsnged my expectations to same or heck - a point or two higher.
Thanks so much. After me stalking forums for years you really gave some new insight. May seem obvious to you but super helpful.
I’ll update you guys in March with my score. Thanks ALL !
Hey there-- Looks like you've been getting some good advice. I had a similar thing happen to me, was PTing in low 170s with the occasional higher score, took the September LSAT and scored a 167, which is solid but below what I had been expecting. I think what @"Seeking Perfection" said about the second test being less stressful is true for most people (it was certainly true for me)-- it's nice that the novelty of the anxiety has worn off, if that makes sense haha.
I also agree that for me there was a section that really stuck out as needing improvement (reading comp) but when I was drilling LR and LG I noticed that the inferences I needed to make felt more automatic than they did leading up to September... This is a weird feeling that cannot really be measured (I was scoring about the same on PT's), but I could tell I was at a different level of understanding going into the second test because the right answers just 'felt' right. I used to be a SAT tutor, and until I had to walk my students through explanations, most of the time I knew the answers to the verbal questions because one 'looked right' or the wrong answers 'looked weird'. And then when I thought about it more I could walk it back and say "oh, it's because this independent clause is missing proper punctuation to connect it to the subordinate clause" or whatever. But that's the point you need to get to with the LSAT. Where you are drawing inferences so quickly it FEELS like you're not thinking about it. You've put in all the work up front, so during the test itself even if you're anxious or distracted your brain is sort of able to go into autopilot and recall what looks right and what feels wrong. Everybody has their own way of getting there, but I had also mostly run out of material for PTs and found that re-doing old tests I hadn't done in months was fine. Also would recommend speeding through sections as fast as you can and then seeing where you make errors. Hope that helps! Apologies for rambling!
This sounds like me on my Sept 2016 test. I was scoring in high/mid 170's and scored a 170 on test day. I choked on LG and realized it was because I had absolutely no strategy or procedure for how I went about taking that section, unlike RC and LR. I experienced a little anxiety and just had no answer to it and so I cracked.
I only had two fresh tests to prepare for Sept 2017, but it was more than enough because I knew what I needed to do to correct my mistakes. I knew my stuff, I just needed some kind of answer to freaking out. If you ever have to ask yourself "what do I do!?", you'd better already have an answer. If you don't, you're just going to spiral out of control or formulate an answer on the fly which is unlikely to be very good. There's going to be anxiety on test day and so you have to plan for how to manage it. For me, it was section strategy. I already had it for LR and RC and those sections went great. Scoring a 170 after going -6 on LG, they obviously held up quite nicely. When I figured out my LG strategy and learned how to execute it, I went -0 in LG for a 176 on the Sept 2017.
Going into test day, know exactly what you're going to do in every contingency. Then stick to the plan and execute your strategy. There shouldn't be any surprises and there is no situation in which you shouldn't know exactly what you're going to do or how you're going to recover if necessary.
1-29 can be great. LG and RC are perfectly fine; LR can get a little weird at certain places, but good overall. Probably better for drills, but if you're scraping the barrel for PTs, the 20's should have you covered.
Just wanted to say that I also have ADHD & anxiety and when I had meds for both of these I got the exact same results taking them together.
http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/495/599/25d.gif
It's not a full meditation, but I'd also work on coaching your thinking about test day itself. Remember that every PT was once a regular test. You're not heading off to D-Day, you're just taking PT 84. Tell yourself that, really soak it in, and try to soothe yourself with it. All you're doing is heading out to PT 84 and someone will handling the timer for you.
No different than any other PT.
Any relaxing activities to calm your mind would probably be good too. I think you mentioned meditation. Definitely keep that up, maybe yoga, or anything else that might help focus and calm you.
You have the knowledge in the bag, I think it's much more of a mindset thing. You got this!
DEFINITELY didn’t ramble! So much useful advise & stuff I’ve never read in all my LSAT forum “research” & never thought to do: such as speeding through sections!!
That will be so helpful Bc my test taking anxiety makes me accidentally do that & then i start to freak out, reread stuff - waste time Bc I didn’t change my answer upon reread etc. etc. if I practice speeding my anxiety speed will feel more ..... normal? And it’ll also take my prep up a notch!
That weird feeling of “knowing” happened to me with RC! kinda unexpectedly. I went from -13s to just simply getting it. Now -0 / -1.
Your comment and another makes me feel like “ughh NOOO” Bc you both improved after seeing how you did on the different sections. Definitely the downside of undisclosed sabbath test. I’d love to know where I took my hit[s] under pressure. But ya know. All this great advice will be amazing & off set any downside undisclosed tests. & I’m confident that these practice and test taking strategies will allow me to hit my PT average in FEB.
What were your “what do I do”s?
Or is that question huge? Like asking “how do you master every part of the LSAT?” haha.
do you have a one liner?
I’d imagine my what do I do for LG: diagram & infer.
what do I do for RC:
“comprehend” [for lack of a better word] as you read, understand the point & purpose before you go from passage to questions, double check passage on identify questions.
what I do for LR:
that’s kinda large .... I guess I’d say ....
be clear about question Type.
usually find the conclusion.
Usually then find the gap.
do what the question type wants.
your “what do I do” seems useful. Am I missing the point of what it actually is & what you’re asking yourself when U freak out.
My whole test was a freak out & my answers to what do I do was “go w/ your gut” - which may be good if you’re not freaking out, but while freaking out it’s a recipe to pick the trap wrong answers.
The most accurate GIF I’ve ever seen!
Glad you understand! This was my first time thinking about and trying to articulate it. the funny thing about ADHD+Anxiety meds together is that WHILE i’m completing the task/PT/whatever, i feel “great”. [read: “normal” since as you know, an anxious/ADHD person’s “great” is a “normal” person’s “normal.] But when i look back on what i completed or how i did, i realize that despite feeling my best while doing it, because of the meds, i didn’t DO my best.
so now I use both sparingly, if at all. one months supply of meds can last months. ya know? once every few/several weeks if I notice my to do list is inexcusably getting more tasks added than complete, or if one or two weeks i notice I had several inexcusably unproductive days that seem to be on the brink of an ADHD pattern of unproductivity. same w/ anxiety. if I don’t feel an earth shattering anxiety attack is imminent, or if I don’t plan on being around a trigger - i avoid meds.
& honestly - the side effects, especially of ADHD meds are sooooo horrible that the thought of “you’re screwing up & will need to take meds which will make you feel like crashing death in the evening” is somethinges enough to motivate me to just DO IT! [.....sometimes....... when it doesn’t trigger anxiety which triggers ADHD distractability&impulsivity&dissociating&escapism, which triggers anxiety which triggers ADHD .... blah.]
Thanks. I LOVE THAT.
PT 84! that sounds & already feels so much better than THE LAW SCHOOL ADMISSIONS TEST. i’ll immediately begin telling everyone who asks me what I’m doing in feb that I’m taking PT 84. Then I’ll just answer any following questions they may have lol.
Yeah, this is usually what happens. Your gut isn't the best guide in this situation. I go with my predetermined, tried and proven procedures and strategies.
LG is probably the best defined. I do every game exactly the same way, step by step. I have a flow chart with different blocks for each part of a game, and each block is broken down step by step. This includes contingencies for particularly weird or hard games as well as for making critical errors. Since I've worked this out, I've never come across a situation I haven't prepared for.
RC is straight forward. I think RC strategy is most heavily determined by time distribution between passage and questions. I'm a slow reader and I take about 3:30 - 4:00 minutes in the passage using heavy standardized annotations. That means I've got to just trust my read, answer the questions, and move on without agonizing over anything. I do my best and move on. For hard passages, I look for the key takeaway that is the central idea around which everything revolves. A good example is the water bug passage in PT 2: Cold = No Wings, Warm = Wings. You can answer all but one or two questions with nothing more than that.
I take LR in three rounds. The first round I'm just picking up the easy ones I can get on intuition alone while classifying the rest into light work or heavy work questions. I can finish this fast and give myself plenty of time for my rounds two and three. In the second round I knock out the easier questions pretty quick and then attempt the curve breakers in the third round. For these, I'm only really trying to get to an average of about 65% confidence. There's normally three of them and I usually get two out of the three. By sorting the questions out in the first round, I make sure that I push the questions I'm most likely to miss to the end and prioritize the higher yield questions.
I took the test yesterday!!!!!!
If I feel like I did amazing [i do] what are the chances that I didn’t do too hot?
When I got my 168 which was 10ish below my 178ish PT average, I knew it. I called my mom & told her I got between no more than a 165 & 170
This time, from start to end, it felt like I was doing a PT: Easy except for those 4ish hard questions each section tends to have, 2 of which are brutal & end up coming down to a complete guess between two answer choices.
I’m feeling 172/173ish about this one, but 175-178, with a little luck on those guesses, isn’t impossible. I wouldn’t retake a 172 even though it’s below my average. My anxiety does what it does.
Also
I took the sabbath test but it was on Saturday..... long story. Still definitely the sabbath version, though.
should i wait until Monday night when the Monday sabbath takers are done to post whatever I remember? I don’t wanna violate any forum rules, or worse, any LSAC rules.
Where can I read and contribute to the “real vs. experimental” convo?
Hey, glad to hear it went well, and I hope your assessment is accurate! I was usually pretty spot on with mine, and if you’ve got a good track record of calling it, hopefully the streak will continue. I’m actually not sure about what to think about a Saturday sabbath test, lol, so no answers for you there. Just wanted to say good job, and I hope things pan out on grey day!
Barring any unforeseen circumstances (bubbling errors, etc) I'd bet that your guess on the score range is accurate! Obviously your PT average is super high, so you know the material and know what it feels like to do well. None of the tests are very different from each other. It sounds like maybe you even just conquered some of your nerves that might have gotten to you the first time! I think all signs point to this being a positive outcome for you. I don't want to get your hopes up, because shit happens, but my guess is that you know how you did. Fingers crossed for you! Congrats on tackling the LSAT beast.
LEAH!!! while testing, I kept doing something, and after re-reading this post, I remember it was your advice!
I’ve never really meditated, but I also took @"Seeking Perfection" s advice about meditating. I got to the test center about 30min early & sat in car and followed a 10 min guided meditation for test anxiety on YouTube. that took a bulk of the edge off the anxiety.
Butttt As I walked to the building the anxiety started coming back, not nearly as bad as it would have without the meditation ... but still. Then before sitting down and starting the instructional bubbling in, I found myself continuously “reminding’ myself, like you said Leah, that, especially since LSAC added a July test, this was nothing but simply “PT 84” and that I had up to 4 retakes at my disposal if I wanted to: June, July, Sept & December. [In my convo with myself “we” didn’t touch on the red flags that 6 LSAT scores would raise lol]. But yea, my constant “PT 84” silent mental reminders are literally why i felt the ease and calm I have when taking a PT. That combined with the meditation really made me have less anxiety than I’ve ever had while under pressure in as long as I can remember.
THANKS!!!
here’s to hoping that in about 3 weeks I can thank you guys’ advise for my 170+ score?!
❤️
Aw, yay @HarvardHopeful!! I’m so happy to hear that. That was a good move with the meditation too. I’m so glad that you found our advice helpful. Fingers crossed for you!!
I got a 17X!!!!!!!!!
YOU DID IT!!!! Congratulations!!!
good job!! the previous take was a fluke!
This is an awesome update! Great work!
What a great story. It's like I just read a motivational story.