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JJML1993
Free Trial Member
I find myself in a bit of a pickle here...
I have one professional and one academic letter ready to go, both of which are quite strong. The academic letter is from a former TA who is now a professor at a different university, but his recommendation is really thoughtful and supportive. I know a faculty member's recommendation would look better...
I had also planned to include a professor that I'd taken three classes with during undergrad, but when he responded to my email request, he said, "I do remember you, but not as well as I should. I'd be happy to write." Understandably, I've been out of school for three years and it's been four years since I've taken a class with him, but his email was less than encouraging. I'm wondering if I should not include his letter in my application...it seems like a gamble. Any advice would be super appreciated.
Comments
Do you have any papers or something you can email the professor to refresh their memory? Or possibly meet up with them?
Unfortunately won't be able to meet up with him, and when I offered to catch up over the phone he ignored that part of my email. He did ask me for papers from his classes, which I sent on to him. He responded with, "This is helpful."
I'm wondering if he's just coming off as a bit cold because we're corresponding over email, or if he's legitimately forgotten who I am. I did really well in all three of his courses, and we used to occasionally grab coffee before class. He's in his mid 70's and a little forgetful, so I'm kind of kicking myself for not asking for a LoR while I was still on campus.
I'm leaning towards leaving his letter out...
Seconding @keets993. I'd say at least get the letter, and you can decide later whether to use it. Once it's submitted to LSAC, then you choose which letters go to which schools.
I'd say to send over papers if you have them, transcript, resume, all information that you can get him. And if you are nearby at all, ask if you could buy him a coffee and and discuss. If that's not possible, I'd say get the letter and politely ask if he's comfortable with it, if he could send you a copy as well for your records. Most people should be fine with that. A couple of my recommenders didn't mention it and never sent me copies, so I just let it slide. But one recommender did send me a copy, which was really helpful.
Then, use your best judgement on whether or not to include the letter on your applications. Doesn't hurt to get more letters on file than you need and decide later which to use.
Thank you thank you for the suggestions!
I would definitely use the TA and opt out on the professor. You want your recommender to be able to speak to your non-academic strengths. If he is really your best option, go for it. I mean, you did take 3 of his classes. I'm just thinking you could find someone better.
Maybe the prof is just busy. I had this one prof, who was amazing, but a very no-nonsense guy. He had like 3 jobs so he didn't really have time for small-talk, even in emails. He preferred just getting to the heart of the matter. So, can't say for sure if the prof is being stand-off ish or not. And yeah, if it's possible get a copy and then decide
@keets993 @"samantha.ashley92" @"Leah M B"
I have a related question - I have one academic LOR lined up from my professor who supervised my honors Thesis class, and for my second LOR, I was planning on asking my TA who I worked closely with on my thesis as well (it helps that she also went to Harvard Law before pursuing a PhD at my University). Does it matter that she just was a TA at the time?
On a separate note, I have been out of school for a year and am planning on asking one of the attorneys I work with often to write me an additional LOR, so that is also an option for me.
Any thoughts/advice/general comments would be much appreciated!! Thank you in advance!
I don't think the fact that she was a TA matters. And I would not ask someone you work with for an LOR since you've only been out of school for a year.
https://law.yale.edu/admissions/jd-admissions/ask-asha/bad-idea-jeans-biggest-mistake-you-can-make-your-yale-law-school-application
And this is her reply to a comment:
"TA recommendations are OK. We understand that at most undergraduate institutions, classes are not always small enough that the person evaluating you will be the professor him- or herself. So a recommendations from a TA who can speak in detail about your work is preferable to a tenured professor who doesn't remember your face.
With that said, I think that if you do submit one rec from a TA, ideally the other one will be from a professor...the professor rec has will have the added benefit of providing some context for the evaluation (e.g., "this person is in the top 3% of the approximately 1,000 students I have taught in my career") that can only come with more experience."
@"samantha.ashley92" nailed it - and that Yale blog is sooo helpful. Although of course it is specifically geared toward Yale admissions, it's generally good and accurate advice for all schools.
I think it wouldn't necessarily hurt to have a LOR from a boss as a backup for maybe a 4th letter if a school wanted that many, but since you've only been out of school a year, they are going to want to see academic recommendations. Law school admissions really want to know about what kind of student you are for their purposes.
I think profs are preferable but admissions knows that sometimes TAs are who you interact with on a daily basis and who actually know your work. So it wouldn't be a bad thing especially if it's a glowing letter of recommendation.
This is super helpful, thank you!! So it would work if I had one from a tenured professor and the other from the TA in question (especially since my thesis was very hands on so I did work very closely with both the professor and the TA).
I know most schools only require 2 LORs, but I kind of wanted to have a third as a back-up, just in case. With that in mind, do you think it would be better to have a 3rd backup LOR from a professor that didn't know me as well (large lecture sizes, etc), as opposed to someone I have worked with for over a year and am currently working with?
Thanks for the feedback! My main 2 are definitely going to be academic (professor + TA), I was just toying with the idea of a third additional one being a professional one, particularly for some schools like Northwestern that may actually give some weight to work experience (or so I've heard). Not sure where you are in the application process, but have you asked for LORs yet? If so, is there anything special to note (or anything you'd recommend) about asking for law school LORs in a way that makes it different from any other LOR? Like any additional information I'd want to give them on top of the basic resume/background on myself?
I applied last year so have been through all the ropes once. Planning on re-applying this year though.
You could try calling and asking Northwestern if they have a preference. But generally, the advice is that you should only use professional reference if there's some reason you can't get academic ones, unless you've been out of school at least 5 years or so and it starts becoming less likely that a professor will remember you. Northwestern does typically prefer students to have professional experience, but your resume will show that. I think probably academic would still be better, but wouldn't hurt to call and ask admissions if they have a preference.
If you haven't gone through the Admissions course yet (which is included with Ultimate+), I highly recommend it. These two sections are particularly helpful:
https://7sage.com/admissions/lesson/rec-cheat-sheet/
https://7sage.com/admissions/lesson/how-to-get-the-best-letter-from-your-recommenders/
Really dumb question, sorry guys. BUT does lsac allow you to see the LOR or is it kept confidential?
I would not get a LOR from someone who doesn't know you well enough to speak to your drive to succeed and overall character.
@TTurner24 it's not dumb! You can only see the LOR if you check off the option to see it. 10/10 would not recommend this. The schools know that you have seen the letter, which makes them wonder if the professor was pressured into writing things that weren't 100% representative of the truth. The LSAC also recommends that you do not do this.
Got it! Thank you so much, not checking it at all then