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Maybe you could private message me this, but could you tell me what you think is unique about Cornell Law school's community? (environment, classes, professors, students, public interest opportunities, overall atmosphere, all of the above)
Hi Daniel! Hope 1L has been amazing (probably amazingly hard at least if The Paper Chase is any indication > <). I guess most of your classes are back in person... ish? Does it feel like the 1L experience you imagined it would be? What's been different than expected? Has your cold-call day come - if so, please tell us how you survived???
@Ashley2018 yes! This is just going to be an unedited information dump so apologies in advance.
Overall atmosphere/students - Obviously any comparisons here are based on secondhand knowledge of other schools but my impression is that Cornell is among the more collaborative environments. I've heard from transfer students and professors, as well as friends attending elsewhere that other schools can be very competitive, to the point of people circulating bad outlines, or ripping out pages form library books/hiding required texts. Conversely, there appear to be no personality issues here, at least in my section and from what I hear from classmates in other sections. I can think of maybe one person in the three sections that I interact with through shared classes, that might be perceived as gunner... ish, but thats stretching it. Not to say this place is unique in this respect. I've also heard a lot of really good things about other schools, but the consistent quality of the people was surprising, and definitely unexpected. I am amazed every day by how smart everyone is here, which I assume is common to most top schools, but it is definitely obvious when a school can afford to cherry pick its class. I confess that I feel intimidated at times... lots of ivy league degrees including advanced terminal degrees, and it can sometimes feel like everyone can speak intelligently about a topic you barely comprehend, but I think that's the case for everyone... and even if it is just me, that's exactly what I signed on for... to surround myself with people better than me to promote my own growth. The classes are also extremely diverse... many international students that opted for a JD rather than LLM, all types of professional fields and ages...ss Cornell has a 3/3 program so the youngest students are in their senior year of UG which is just wild to me.
Environment - Ithaca is definitely a college town but it is just basically the area right outside campus... it only takes a few minutes to get out of the crowds if you can even call it that. The area is beautiful, and from what I understand (I personally didn't visit another campuses, but from those who did) we have one of the nicer facilities and campuses overall... the one that comes up as being as nice if not better most often is Berkeley. Very walkable though there are hills. Good bus system. The surrounding area has everything you need though you can still see the economic effects of covid.
Professors/classes - challenging but manageable. Its more about time management IMO than actual difficulty of the material. Maybe 50-80ish pages of reading a day? Which can fluctuate obviously. Seems like class is more about being able to explore the reasoning behind the law and judicial decisions + the professors personal takes, and to be able to articulate your understanding... being able to think deeply. Exams seem to be more about applying the rules to hypothetical situations and explore all possible outcomes. The professors are amazing... it can be intimidating having a professor who wrote the actual casebook you use, or that interviews on NPR after classes, but they are all brilliant for lack of a better word. One thing I have noticed though is that academic brilliance can sometimes get in the way of instructing for actual success in school, given that the exams are rule based.
Public interest - here, I am of no help... I haven't had the time to do anything but study unfortunately. There are public interest student groups, but I cannot speak to the scope of their activities or student involvement.
I admit that this place became my choice because of the scholarships, but even given the choice to switch costs held equal, I'd pick this place over almost anywhere else. Its just a really great place to be.
Now, I think the major takeaway is not that Cornell is great (it is), but that making sure you get into a good school is more important than the one school you had your heart set on. I know a lot of people having the time of their lives at other schools that thought they were settling for something other than their first choice. Who went in hoping to transfer out and now would not leave for any offer.
Aside, there is what appears to be an excellent JD/MBA program here that still allows you to graduate in 3 years that I am looking into... if anyone is interested in an MBA I highly recommend looking into Cornell.
Hi Daniel! Thank you for doing this.
Do you believe in "translating" the stimulus after you read it? I feel like I am slow with this and that I am keeping everything in my mind, which is overwhelming once I get to the ACs. Would love to know what you do as you approach an LR question.
We've been fully in person. They're very good about covid here... masks indoors, weekly surveillance testing, and if you miss a test, they revoke your access to basically the whole school including building access and internet/online class access. I'd say its what I expected, but only because I expected to be wrong about what I expected... if that makes sense. It's more collaborative than I thought... the people here are so smart and friendly it amazes me. Maybe I'm just used to a less... wholesome subset of the population? From what I've seen so far, literally anyone will go out of their way to get to know you or help you out. Maybe everyone just feels sorry for me lol.
The class experience can vary depending on the professor. I cant speak to other schools but my professors are either very focused on making sure you learn and perform well, or scholarship focused and try to make sure you think deeply about the material (with their own take layered on). Some dont cold call at all. Some will stick with you the entire class. Here at least, Kingsfield (coincidentally my favorite class so far is contracts, which people also seem to think has the hardest cold calls) would be more like the drill sergeant in full metal jacket compared to how basic training really is... like maybe that was how things used to be... and still is in some select instances, but overall it's not something to be intimidated by. Cold calls are fine... just do the readings and remember that (1) they dont count toward your grade (2) no one will remember what happened but you and (3) even if they do no one cares how you did anyway... they're more worried about being cold called themselves. I think if you focus on learning the concepts and understanding your cases, cold calls take care of themselves. I think I've done one in contracts for an extended time, and multiple shorter ones in torts... none of them were bad. In fact they're enjoyable to an extent. I think it has to do with my section... in class the majority of people are looking to have meaningful conversations and learn so even when you say something the professor disagrees with, someone else will jump in and argue a different perspective. It's more like a discussion than being put on the spot (unless you just completely said fuck it and didnt do the readings at all). I just get this feel of genuine academic curiosity that makes the whole experience feel very... I dont know... wholesome?
Absolutely. Remember the purpose of translation is to simplify. So the result should be you have less to "carry" with you into the answers... just the important stuff. I may take longer at first, but you should ultimately be able to simplify in your head as you read... I call that "inline translation." Either way, dont worry about speed. Even if it always takes longer, it's still worth doing. You cant misunderstand a stimulus fast enough to help you. Quite often to go fast we need to slow down, as it is much more efficient to read slowly once and understand than to read it 5 times fast and still not know what's going on. Focus on mastery... on understanding... on doing it right the first time, and speed will follow as a product.
Reflect on your translations. Evaluate your performances. Here's a tip I picked up from @"Jonathan Wang" - compare your translation to what, now knowing what the answer is, the ideal translation would have been. In retrospect what should you have taken into the answers with you vs what you actually did take. Why is there a difference, and what can you do to improve your approach?
LR approach is something that can go on forever, but my basic strategy is to define your task (stem translation, question type strategies, etc.), translate your stimulus (argument components, assumptions, common patterns, flaws, traps, etc.), and focus on efficiency of answer choice evaluation... do you need to see all of them? Is there a point in an AC where is it wrong no matter what comes next? Obviously there's a lot more to get into but thats an entire curriculum in itself. LR (and the test in general IMO) depends on effective translation, timing/skipping, and adequate depth of review and its resulting plan of action. Pretty broad but so was the question... let me know if you had more specific questions.
Awesome! Thank you for sharing and taking time to do this! Can't wait for the day when I break out in cold sweats in front of whomever my future version of Kingsfield will be.
Have a good fall break! 🙂
This is more regarding applications, but was Cornell the only T-14 school you applied to and was accepted?
It was a mix of WL to withdrawals and A's, except IIRC Harvard and Stanford which were R's. Actually, I did wait out Yale's WL until they shut me down. Of the A's Cornell just had the best overall package in terms of the things that mattered to me. Also worth noting is that I applied in February.
Ah...now I'm really worried lol. I'm guessing you took your final LSAT in January?
Thanks so much @canihazJD - I still remember a reassuring phone call with you and how much it helped me refocus on LSAT studying.
I also remembering your saying you were... above the average age for a law student. I'd love to hear your experience being on the older side since I will be too (starting at age 37, if all goes well).
Also I'm happy you're happy at Cornell! My sister went there for vet school and based just on my visits with her I'm applying there as the area is stellar. I think about their amazing restaurants, vineyards, and farmers' market all the time.
I think the results were on par for the cycle and the late app. Yes, January.
I live right next to the vet school, and most of my neighbors are students there! Pretty impressive accomplishment for your sister... I didn't realize until I got here that Cornell is like THE vet school to be at. I agree about the area... I didn't know until I saw how the area, school and people were, but I don't think things could have turned out better.
I am the oldest person in my class, and really it has never come up. If anything it allows me to contribute more uniquely to class discussions and I find that I can also connect with the faculty in a different way than most other people. I suppose there are certain times when you can tell that some of your classmates have never worked out in the "real world" but in my section anyway it seems like everyone is smart enough to know what they dont know if that makes sense. I have found zero difficulty having conversations or hanging out socially... though I'm not hitting the bars with everyone all the time. No sense of awkwardness or disconnect. I think a lot if it is the quality of person that comes here. I'm sure it is the same for the rest of the T14 - 20ish schools... one of the reasons why I stress investing in admission to an upper level school. Not that the education will be better (though it might be) but more because those places can afford to curate a class of good people and faculty. IMO anyway.
Thanks for that insight! Have you had ice cream at their creamery yet? (from vet school dairy cows!) The botanical garden is also great.
Not yet... no time for much sightseeing lol. But I live right next to the botanic gardens and run through there whenever I find time for a workout! Beautiful place!
@canihazJD You answered my questions, thank you! I have to remember that process comes before results.
Out of curiosity, what is your daily schedule during law school like and do you manage to have any scheduled relaxation time (i.e. you choose to chill on Fridays and Sunday evenings every week)?
I'm here with my wife and 5th grader so by necessity, school can't take up all my time.
Right now I typically hit the books hard during breaks/lunch, after class until a bit before dinner, then switch to family time until everyone goes to bed, then I pick it up again until around 12. My sweet spot is 7 hours of sleep (I wake up naturally about then) so that gets me up and running around 7. I get to class around 815-830 and review until class starts around 9.
I have longer breaks some days so I hit the gym on campus, and we have a running group that meets once a week after class. I also run and try to get ahead reading on the weekends, just to give myself some room. I could conceivably prep for Monday on Friday and have the weekend off, but I prefer to space it out.
Still not optimized yet... I often find myself sitting upstairs working, thinking that I should be downstairs with my family. But it's law school, and you do have to make sacrifices. I imagine I'll get it down just in time to take finals and switch to a whole new schedule lol. I'm finding that one of the drawbacks of having professors that write the casebooks you use is that often you cant just quimbee the case... you have to actually read what they wrote in the book.
Overall you can just assume that you'll be busy and have to make sacrifices, but as long as you are mindful of your time, its not too hard to have a life and do well in class.