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Oct 2015 game 3

Harry_PluxenHarry_Pluxen Alum Member
in October 2015 LSAT 42 karma
Without going into detail, whats the consensus on game 3? Difficult? Easy? Or just time sink?

Lots of people on the TLS forums giving conflicting accounts on it.
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Comments

  • PacificoPacifico Alum Inactive ⭐
    8021 karma
    I think it was just the pressure clouding the simplicity. Once the game is released I think a lot of people (myself included) for how straightforward it actually was. I think my problem was spending 2-3 minutes too many on each of the first two games. The third game was probably a good 10 minute game but not actually that difficult, just a time sink to split the worlds up front.
  • ChrissyChrissy Free Trial Member
    47 karma
    @Pacifico I completely agree. If there was no time pressure I don't believe the game would have been that difficult.
  • Faaabs93Faaabs93 Alum Member
    edited October 2015 82 karma
    I'm pretty sure I got that question, but it took me a while.

    People seemed to misread one of the rules, but for me I found the stimulus itself to sort of be convoluted.

    Needless to say that question took me a lot of time to do. Any inferences you could make from the rules flew over my head, which caused me to have to spend a loooooooot of time on each individual question. If the questions before it weren't easy(er), I definitely would have bombed it. Just one of those LG games that you need to allocate a lot of time to.

    It was a hard question. Less so the game itself, but it was just worded so weird. I find it so strange that so many people from all spectrums of PT averages messed it up. Would that not question not have come up as a problem in a past experimental?
  • kmojorelikmojoreli Member
    118 karma
    I got thrown by the first question because it was so atypical. I got flustered and I dumped way too much time into it. I honestly blanked and didn't even know what to do next. Live and Learn. I agree that overall the game probably wasn't that hard.
  • bSM45LSATbSM45LSAT Member
    edited October 2015 522 karma
    I could verbatim write this game out right now. This game is giving me nightmares. I literally misread not one, TWO game rules leading me to panic and guess all Ds on this game.

    What makes me the most mad is that it was not even a hard game. Literally PT 76 had none of those "weird" games and I still messed up.

    Furthermore when I've been doing Pts I have occasionally misread game rules and bombed games. That's why before driving on Saturday I pumped myself in the car and tried to list out all the things I wouldn't mess up on, one of them being misreading a game rule.

    I know we can't say specific stuff about the games, but I literally interpreted one of the rules to be you have to see at least one XY, instead of XZ. I'm using random symbols, but how the hell do you even mess that up. This led to me crossing off all the answer choices in Q1, and then utter chaos.

    My only smart move I'd say was immediately moving onto Game 4.

    Also I know lots of people are saying they messed this game up, but I have a strong feeling a vast majority did well on it just it was a game that took a little bit more time, which means there's no godsend curve that will help us.

    Q_Q
  • mimimimimimimimi Free Trial Member
    368 karma
    I learned somewhere from 7sage that you should not split if the gameboards > number of questions. So I went into this game without splitting the gameboards. On the third question, I realized that brutal forcing every question would be too ridiculous so I went back, scratched everything and drew out all the scenarios. Things got much easier afterwards. I did not find this game too difficult. But I got -3 on PT 75 G4 though (I got -1 on PT72 G4 without understanding that game at all). And seriously with recent PTs, I start to lose the ability to tell what is difficult and what is not...
  • PacificoPacifico Alum Inactive ⭐
    8021 karma
    @bSM45LSAT said:
    This led to me crossing off all the answer choices in Q1, and then utter chaos.
    This advice is not specific to this game, but in general, if you're doing the acceptable situation question and a rule knocks out more than 2 ACs (usually only 1, but I've seen a couple games where it's 2 since there are only 3 rules), then you messed up an inference and should go back immediately.

    I recently did this on a game in the bundle with a B before C rule that I wrote as C --- B and was like wow I just knocked out three ACs with that rule alone... luckily within about 30 seconds I realized how stupid that would be if that were true and was able to catch my mistake.

    My problem with game 3 was just a little deer in the headlights to split or not rather than just get to work, which is where I wasted a little time, but wasn't the deal breaker here. I managed to eliminate a good 2-3 answers per question and used that to make some educated guesses. Since I had skipped ahead to game 4 and come back I spent the last few seconds after time was called starting at the questions in game 3 and I'm pretty sure I luckily got at least half of them.
  • dainagdainag Free Trial Member
    edited October 2015 12 karma
    i am so scared I missed a key inference on game 3. I did this game in a bit of a panic, as I had just nervously skipped game 2 for the time being - I created a limited number of worlds, but when I got to the "acceptable situation" I crossed them ALL out. Revisited my board, but found no glaring errors - I am afraid I should have looked back at stimulus to re-evaluate my rules altogether. But I didn't - I went on to the rest of the questions, which were answered so easily by the boards I had... but I am afraid there was one world that I had been missing the whole time, that can have messed me up on the "Acceptable situation" and on possible "must be true" questions... "could be true's" may still be safe. Just feeling kind of scared.
  • Harry_PluxenHarry_Pluxen Alum Member
    42 karma
    Does anyone think that the difficulty of the game will affect the "curve" of the test in a favourable way?
  • logicfiendlogicfiend Alum Member
    118 karma
    Similar to the difficult game in June 2015, this game rested on one key inference and I think those that took a second upfront to work through some of the possibilities were rewarded. Regardless, it WAS a difficult game, but I think it was manageable if you saw the inference right away and didn't sink your time.

    It seems the main problem for some in this game wasn't that it was abnormal or very difficult, but that some people misread one of the rules. I'm not sure if LSAC was taking this into account when they wrote those rules together (with very similar words), but it's interesting many people misinterpreted them.

    I honestly thought game 2 was more challenging. I usually go -1 or -0 in games, and there was one question in that game I could NOT figure out the answer to, which may not bode well.
  • PacificoPacifico Alum Inactive ⭐
    8021 karma
    The "curve" is determined long before the test is given and has nothing to do with people collectively shitting the bed on test day...
  • Harry_PluxenHarry_Pluxen Alum Member
    42 karma
    I know how the curve is determined in advance. But that doesn't rule out the possibility that it could still have been determined in advance that the game was difficult and would, therefore, have adjusted the curve accordingly. Am I right?

    Also, without breaking LSAC regulations, which two rules did most people misread?
  • deleted accountdeleted account Free Trial Member
    edited October 2015 393 karma
    I also found this game super difficult, even though I did split. I ended up testing every answer choice (almost) on every question. Even so, I don't think I spent more than 15 minutes on this game. And fortunately, the other games were just super duper easy. So I'm actually feeling pretty comfortable on this.

    @logicfiend:

    Were you able to make upfront inferences on this game? Because I thought game 2 split beautifully into 3 almost-complete boards, but I couldn't make a single inference on game 3. And I"m certain that I did not mix up the two rules that you mention.

    EDIT: I just wrote out the rules and redid the setup. You are correct @logicfiend, this game splits decently into 8 boards, although not so nicely that I think it is necessary.
  • jacobkuppjacobkupp Alum Member
    25 karma
    Yeah I made the wise choice after a few minutes into that game of skipping it and going onto game 4, then came back around to make some hasty guessing on the ones I hadn't got to on game 3. I realized right at the end that that game was simpler than I was making it but oh well
  • logicfiendlogicfiend Alum Member
    118 karma
    @josephellengar Yes, by doing some work upfront, you realize there is a limited number of possibilities and this game is actually pretty restrictive.

    Usually the way I do logic games is that I will create very rough diagrams to map out a few rules, just enough that I understand how they interact with each other. That's what I did in this game - mapping out those two major rules to get a feel of what the boards would look like. I don't think you need to do all the boards, but I do wish I had spent more time upfront with the rules in hindsight.
  • DaveH162DaveH162 Alum Member
    221 karma
    For those that took this test, are there any games that you can think of that mirror the inferences on this game that we could use for practice?
  • mimimimimimimimi Free Trial Member
    368 karma
    This game reminded me of an old game in which someone is scheduling research, operation, lecturing etc from Monday thru Saturday but Thursday is skipped. I don't remember which PT it was but it is used as an example in many prep books.
  • deleted accountdeleted account Free Trial Member
    393 karma
    @DaveH162 @mimimimi

    Preptest 7 game 2.

    Similar setup but far fewer and also similar rules.

    Any games that are heavily sequencing but also sort of grouping are similar. But this game was very open with the rules and, as discussed above, while theoretically there is a doable number of game boards, I don't think that helped. In that way it made me think of preptest 57 game 4, which for all of my banging my head against the wall I have never managed to perfect.
  • mimimimimimimimi Free Trial Member
    368 karma
    This is just me: whenever I see a MBT/F on the 2nd question of a game and I don't get it under 15 sec (meaning to come up with an approach that is not brutal force), I know I must be missing an important inference. This is how I realized that my initial approach for this game was wrong - I spent one or two minutes on the second question and was still shaky about the answer (that feeling when you find the right answer but have no time to check the rest of the answer choices). I knew then that I must have missed all the inferences. Actually the game is highly restrictive and 7sage's golden approach of splitting game boards saved the day.
  • mimimimimimimimi Free Trial Member
    368 karma
    @josephellengar Indeed!!! You found it! Actually I didn't recall this game during the test but it used to give me a lot of trouble.
  • dainagdainag Free Trial Member
    12 karma
    I am now thoroughly convinced I misread a rule. I only had three game boards. Terrified.
  • Lawgic180Lawgic180 Alum Member
    12 karma
    Which rule we talking about?
  • mimimimimimimimi Free Trial Member
    368 karma
    @daimag I only had three game boards too! I did not misread a rule and I actually checked all the answer choices.
  • DaveH162DaveH162 Alum Member
    221 karma
    @mimimimi @josephellengar Thank you!
  • PetrichorPetrichor Alum Member
    359 karma
    Didn't find the game particularly difficult except for the last Q; had to go back and narrowed it down to 3 choices but had to guess due to time running out. I think that was the only LG Q I had issues with.
  • katherinestein24katherinestein24 Alum Member
    88 karma
    I just re-did the game from memory. I did not mis-read a rule and I definitely had three game boards with two elements switching off. SO CONFUSED.
  • dainagdainag Free Trial Member
    12 karma
    mimimimi and zfisher you are SO helping me breathe a little easier haha <3 <3 <3 Man, I've gotta get this test out of my mind for the next month.
  • deleted accountdeleted account Free Trial Member
    edited October 2015 393 karma
    EDIT: decided this comment was too detailed. Sorry!
  • deleted accountdeleted account Free Trial Member
    393 karma
    Anybody remember how many questions were in this game? I just learned that I missed a rule :*(
  • logicfiendlogicfiend Alum Member
    118 karma
    :((( There were five questions, 14 -18.
  • deleted accountdeleted account Free Trial Member
    393 karma
    @logicfiend:

    Whew. Ok. At least it's not too many. Maybe still met my score goal. Please encourage me and tell me that you have also had an experience in the past (as happened to me on preptest 74) where you missed a rule on a game and only got one question wrong on the section.
  • logicfiendlogicfiend Alum Member
    118 karma
    @josephellengar It is totally possible. You can get away with making inferences/getting questions right and basically working around the fact that you missed a rule, it also depends on the rule though. Can you subtly say which rule you missed? I can only remember one question from that game, but I think I remember all the rules.
  • deleted accountdeleted account Free Trial Member
    393 karma
    @logicfiend

    I missed the not both rule. Which now that I am aware of it, the game solves so easily.I doubt I got the acceptable situation question right, and I'm sure I missed the second question (I had two other items together that shouldn't have been) but I can't remember anything else.
  • logicfiendlogicfiend Alum Member
    118 karma
    @josephellengar The more I think I remember this game, I think the less I actually do - do not remember a not both rule...ughhhhh
  • nicole.hopkinsnicole.hopkins Inactive Sage Inactive ⭐
    7965 karma
    Guys.

    This thread has been very close to the border of TOS violations if not completely over the line at points.

    Let's all just simmer down and do something else with our time than attempt to rehash this game from memory. The only wheels that should be spun are pottery wheels—so, let's get a nice productive hobby and stop making ourselves nuts (and possibly violating TOS).
This discussion has been closed.