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It's official. Accommodated test takers must take the experimental. The LSAC is deplorable.

LARamsNationLARamsNation Member
edited August 2016 in General 592 karma
No formal announcement, they just wanted to stick it to us. Glad someone caught it before. EVERYONE needs to adjust.. savage.

Here is the email since others were afraid of sharing.. Im at a loss of words.
Beginning with the September 2016 test, all administrations of the test include five sections and a writing sample. Please see a description of the test at http://www.lsac.org/jd/lsat/about-the-lsat and http://www.lsac.org/docs/default-source/jd-docs/statement-of-need.pdf. Your accommodations for the June and September test are identical. The only thing that has changed is the format of the test. You were not previously granted a waiver of the non-scored section as an accommodation nor are you entitled to one now.

Admin edit: A user posted a screenshot of their email from LSAC as well.
@hope.brinn said:
http://imgur.com/a/iL4bP
Admin-added poll because Dillon is frustrated!
  1. Will you be okay with taking 5 sections? (Please only answer if you have accommodations)47 votes
    1. Sure, this doesn't bother me at all.
      14.89%
    2. It sucks, but I'll be okay.
      23.40%
    3. If they let us have another break, I'll make it.
      12.77%
    4. Probably not. 6+ hours is a long time.
      23.40%
    5. SOS, this is detrimental to my physical and/or mental health.
      25.53%
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Comments

  • notwilliamwallacenotwilliamwallace Alum Member
    1049 karma
    Dear LSAC, if you're reading this, get ready to fight another legal battle.
  • LARamsNationLARamsNation Member
    592 karma
    It would be somewhat understandable if they announced this right after the june administration.. , but the fact that the deadline to alter your accommodations request was two weeks ago combined with the fact that every accommodated test taker has been preparing months, if not years, for four sections is outright despicable. I cant believe how patently unfair this is?! ONE MONTH BEFORE? I'm SHOCKED that they did this.. I dont know what to say.
  • inactiveinactive Alum Member
    12637 karma
    @Matthew524
    image
    God damnit, LSAC. Isn't it illegal to keep people in a room for 8 hours without at least TWO 15min breaks and one 30min break? Or is that just in my area?
  • jknaufjknauf Alum Member
    1741 karma
    Grab the pitchforks!
  • jknaufjknauf Alum Member
    1741 karma
    image
  • SprinklesSprinkles Alum Member ⭐
    11542 karma
    Guys, I'm so sorry :( screw LSAC.
  • SprinklesSprinkles Alum Member ⭐
    edited August 2016 11542 karma
    @LARamsNation said:
    It would be somewhat understandable if they announced this right after the june administration.. , but the fact that the deadline to alter your accommodations request was two weeks ago combined with the fact that every accommodated test taker has been preparing months, if not years, for four sections is outright despicable. I cant believe how patently unfair this is?! ONE MONTH BEFORE? I'm SHOCKED that they did this.. I dont know what to say.
    I'm curious....would you guys have even known about this if someone didn't mention it first? can't imagine the detriment :(
  • stepharizonastepharizona Alum Member
    3197 karma
    @"Dillon A. Wright" said:
    God damnit, LSAC. Isn't it illegal to keep people in a room for 8 hours without at least TWO 15min breaks and one 30min break? Or is that just in my area?
    Nope, just your area and some states , if you're looking at the LSAT as a "work day". Breaks and lunches are not required by US Federal law, nor is an 8 hour work day...

    For the 20 states that have meal guidelines, it kicks in after 5 or 6 hours. Even fewer states have break requirements.

    https://www.dol.gov/general/topic/workhours/breaks

    I know that was more than likely rhetorical but the HR person in me couldn't resist...
  • AlexAlex Alum Member ⭐
    23929 karma
    @stepharizona said:
    I know that was more than likely rhetorical but the HR person in me couldn't resist...
    Haha! I love to see the lawyer in you coming out ;)
  • AlexAlex Alum Member ⭐
    23929 karma
    Anyways, this is awful. I feel for you guys who are getting blindsided by this. I myself cannot comprehend why they think it was OK to just change this without notifying anyone far in advance.

    In any case, there really is nothing any of us can do, so my advice going forward is to power through it to the best of your ability. That is all anyone can ever do in the face of adversity like this.
  • Nanchito-1-1Nanchito-1-1 Alum Member
    1762 karma
    That's horrible. Lsac is so evil... =(
  • inactiveinactive Alum Member
    12637 karma
    @stepharizona said:
    I know that was more than likely rhetorical but the HR person in me couldn't resist...
    Thanks Steph, that's actually pretty interesting to read.
    @montaha.rizeq said:
    I'm curious....would you guys have even known about this if someone didn't mention it first? can't imagine the detriment :(
    I'd assume that unless LSAC sent out a mass email before the LSAT, people would be walking in to take their accommodations and get slapped in the face with the experimental section. That's more than likely still going to happen to some people since we can't widespread this thread to everyone taking accomms, which really, really grinds my gears. People who need accommodations (myself included) are already treated so poorly by society when trying to get into the workforce and this is just another subtle form of "disabled people shouldn't work because we don't see them as people". When people like LSAC throw these jabs at us, other people will see it and follow suite.

    I'm not going to get too heated on this topic since it's something I'm pretty passionate about and don't want to run away with my thoughts, but that's just what I'm feeling now. Hope everyone who's taking accommodations is okay during the LSAT. Bring extra energy snacks and such.
  • Accounts PlayableAccounts Playable Live Sage ⭐
    3107 karma
    @"Dillon A. Wright" said:
    d assume that unless LSAC sent out a mass email before the LSAT, people would be walking in to take their accommodations and get slapped in the face with the experimental section.
    I wonder when/how they contacted people about previous testing changes. Any idea when they notified testers that the test would include comparative passages or the creation of the rule substitution question? I know it's not the same thing, but it could help shed some light on the LSAC's notification policy.
  • notwilliamwallacenotwilliamwallace Alum Member
    1049 karma
    By adding a fifth section, the LSAC adds a considerable amount of time to the amount of time that accommodated test takers will spend in the exam room. Is LSAC going to allow us to bring a second bag with lunch? How am I supposed to fit all of my writing material and things to eat in one small bag. I need to take meds that need my stomach to be filled before I can take them. This is totally discriminatory on part of LSAC and something they need to be told. I'm going to make sure this concern is escalated at LSAC. Unless they add a lunch break and/or allow people like me to bring another bag with lunch, they're looking to get into legal trouble.

    I truly don't mind writing another section but I seriously need to eat regularly during the exam.
  • LawTweetLawTweet Alum Member
    edited October 2018 57 karma
    deleted.
  • inactiveinactive Alum Member
    12637 karma
    @"Accounts Playable" said:
    I wonder when/how they contacted people about previous testing changes. Any idea when they notified testers that the test would include comparative passages or the creation of the rule substitution question?
    A great question that I unfortunately have no knowledge about. I don't think we'd have anyone on 7Sage who was around for that, so getting that info might prove to be tricky.
  • LawTweetLawTweet Alum Member
    edited October 2018 57 karma
    deleted
  • inactiveinactive Alum Member
    12637 karma
    @hope.brinn said:
    imgur.com/a/iL4bP
    Thanks Hope, this is a great screenshot.
  • LawTweetLawTweet Alum Member
    edited October 2018 57 karma
    deleted
  • LARamsNationLARamsNation Member
    592 karma
    @"Dillon A. Wright" said:
    I'd assume that unless LSAC sent out a mass email before the LSAT, people would be walking in to take their accommodations and get slapped in the face with the experimental section. That's more than likely still going to happen to some people since we can't widespread this thread to everyone taking accomms, which really, really grinds my gears. People who need accommodations (myself included) are already treated so poorly by society when trying to get into the workforce and this is just another subtle form of "disabled people shouldn't work because we don't see them as people". When people like LSAC throw these jabs at us, other people will see it and follow suite.
    @"Dillon A. Wright" preach on brother. I couldn't have articulated it any better.
  • LARamsNationLARamsNation Member
    592 karma
    @hope.brinn said:
    Until recently, certain administrations of the test used a four-section format, rather than a five section format. This was not an accommodation granted to test takers. It was a practice related to the annotation of scores earned with additional test time.

    They're so dirty... They purposely don't use the word "accommodation" there. But herein lies a paradox.. if you can now receive a "waiver" to be exempt from the non-scored section, doesn't that constitute what an accommodation is supposed to do? And if that's the case, and we've been afforded that "waiver" in the past, aren't we supposed to be entitled to the same accommodations, or waivers, we've received in the past? I know a potential term shift fallacy is screaming , but I just don't see how you differentiate "waivers" and "accommodations".. #justsayin'
  • notwilliamwallacenotwilliamwallace Alum Member
    1049 karma
    I got the same reply from there. In my reply to them, I have sent them the following email:

    Hello,

    Thanks for your email. I understand, and have no issue with writing a 5th section on the LSAT. However, LSAC has to realize that I will be spending well over 6 hours doing the test. My illness requires me to eat medications, to be taken along with food. Also, LSAC only allows one small ziplock bag where we are supposed to fit in everything for the test, including snacks.

    How does LSAC expect me to fit my snack, lunch, pencils, erasers, etc in one small bag and make it last for over 6 hours? I am afraid I will have to miss medications due to this and risk being sick and being incapacitated because of the limitations that LSAC places on me.

    Would LSAC allow for a lunch break or allow the accommodated writers to bring in additional snacks and/or lunch?

    I am also copying the Department of Justice on this email as I feel like they should know about my concern, which I am sure will be the concern of many.
  • LARamsNationLARamsNation Member
    edited August 2016 592 karma
    @notwilliamwallace said:
    I am also copying the Department of Justice on this email as I feel like they should know about my concern, which I am sure will be the concern of many.
    What is their e-mail address, I'd like to CC them on the e-mail I sent out as well.
  • tofuspeedstartofuspeedstar Alum Member
    edited August 2016 139 karma
    Well that blows. But, as a test taker sitting in September with accommodations I have no choice but to power through it and do the best I can. I'm not going to let an extra section stop me from becoming a bad ass attorney.
  • tofuspeedstartofuspeedstar Alum Member
    139 karma
    I do hope I can cram my lunch in there through. Luckily the medication I take only needs to be taken once daily in the morning...but it still sucks because I was planning to drive up to Ft Worth to celebrate with my girlfriend after the exam, but that extra section would probably stop me from doing so. 6 hours..I'd be too tired to make the drive.
  • SprinklesSprinkles Alum Member ⭐
    11542 karma
    But, as a test taker sitting in September with accommodations I have no choice but to power through it and do the best I can. I'm not going to let an extra section stop me from becoming a bad ass attorney.
    @tofuspeedstar You guys are so inspirational seriously.
  • tofuspeedstartofuspeedstar Alum Member
    139 karma
    @montaha.rizeq Thanks. But, for me personally, everyone/everything has thrown roadblocks at me most of my teenage/adult life. So I'm not surprised that there's another one being thrown my way. I just learned that I can't sit and complain about it..just do what they ask of me and get the job done to the best of my ability despite the conditions I have. I've been taking 5 section PTs anyways. Now that my personal accommodations have been approved i will need to adjust starting on Monday.
  • LawTweetLawTweet Alum Member
    edited October 2018 57 karma
    deleted
  • tofuspeedstartofuspeedstar Alum Member
    139 karma
    @hope.brinn said:
    I assume that I'm going to have to take the 5 section test with no extra breaks or anything like that. I'll live. But I believe that lack of proper notification was wholly unfair and thus I will exhaust all grievance procedures to make my disagreement known.
    Yeah, the lack of notification blows..but, I'd save the grievances for after we crush the exam next month :)
  • inactiveinactive Alum Member
    edited August 2016 12637 karma
    @LARamsNation said:
    if you can now receive a "waiver" to be exempt from the non-scored section, doesn't that constitute what an accommodation is supposed to do? And if that's the case, and we've been afforded that "waiver" in the past, aren't we supposed to be entitled to the same accommodations, or waivers, we've received in the past?
    You'd think, right? Is there any way you guys can get the waiver before the September LSAT? I don't know the process for it, sorry.

    I posted the same sort of stuff over on the LSAT reddit to warn people who might have accommodations there and I got met with "doesn't this level the playing ground / stop accommodations gaming?" and I just...
    image
    "doesn't this level the playing ground / stop accommodations gaming?"
    image
  • inactiveinactive Alum Member
    12637 karma
    @notwilliamwallace said:
    Would LSAC allow for a lunch break or allow the accommodated writers to bring in additional snacks and/or lunch?
    Did they reply to this part at all, or just completely ignore it?
  • inactiveinactive Alum Member
    12637 karma
    PS, added a poll. I know not everyone is comfortable sharing that they have accommodations, so this is a good way to gauge people's reactions to LSAC's change. No one can see who voted (including myself), just that there was a vote placed.
  • LARamsNationLARamsNation Member
    592 karma
    @"Dillon A. Wright" said:
    You'd think, right? Is there any way you guys can get the waiver before the September LSAT? I don't know the process for it, sorry.
    Nope, deadline was Aug. 10th. How convenient for them...
  • inactiveinactive Alum Member
    12637 karma
    @LARamsNation said:
    Nope, deadline was Aug. 10th. How convenient for them...
    Okay THAT is super fucked up. You can't send out a change after the deadline, c'mon LSAT.
  • SprinklesSprinkles Alum Member ⭐
    11542 karma
    It's like LSAC woke up one morning and said, "I'm in the mood to get sued"
  • Daniel2433Daniel2433 Alum Member
    138 karma
    I have accom for the sept test, still gonna power through. I look at it as another hurdle I have to get over, I'm just glad my medication lasts 11+ hours and I don't to have to stress about changing my medication due to the extended time added
  • LawTweetLawTweet Alum Member
    edited October 2018 57 karma
    deleted
  • inactiveinactive Alum Member
    12637 karma
    LSAC: Makes last minute changes to the accommodations.
    Everyone: Hey the deadline's over but I literally can't do your changes, can we get another break?
    LSAC: :) No.
  • SprinklesSprinkles Alum Member ⭐
    edited August 2016 11542 karma
    Haha exactly @"Dillon A. Wright". I stand firmly with all who are going through this unfair scrutiny. You guys are going to kill the LSAT whether you have 5 or 8 sections!! Don't let unfair heartless rules get in the way of your dreams. You're all too strong for this to bring you down!
  • TheCubicleEscapeeTheCubicleEscapee Member
    342 karma
    wow, I was considering this myself... but now it is almost like why bother? and it is so wrong that they changed it on that date... so wrong. Good luck everyone I know that has to be frustrating. I am just going to have to PT with more distractions in the back ground and hope for the best.
  • BruiserWoodsBruiserWoods Member Inactive ⭐
    1706 karma
    That's cute because i'm bout to sue the dog piss out of them. <3 *flips hair*
  • stephgmeisterstephgmeister Alum Member
    100 karma
    This seriously BLOWS but luckily I had my request of 8 minute break after each section granted a while back! But how about everyone else? Do you guys not get any break except for the 15 minute one ????!!
  • inactiveinactive Alum Member
    12637 karma
    I posted this on Reddit and a user said this:
    image

    Can you guys check your confirmation letters and see what it says?
  • notwilliamwallacenotwilliamwallace Alum Member
    1049 karma
    Nope, I can pretty much guarantee it will have an experimental. I say this because my letter in Feb mentioned "4 section book." However, this time it says, "5 section book."

    Unless, people getting double time are only getting the 4 sections.
  • LawTweetLawTweet Alum Member
    edited October 2018 57 karma
    deleted
  • LawTweetLawTweet Alum Member
    edited October 2018 57 karma
    deleted
  • inactiveinactive Alum Member
    12637 karma
    @LawTweet said:
    I just got my confirmation letter and it says "materials: 5 section booklet."
    It then outlines how much time I get for each section and doesn't include an experimental section. Should I assume this means I'm not taking the experimental section? I can't tell if the fifth section is writing or the experimental?
    5 sections includes the experimental. Written is not included in the sections.
  • tofuspeedstartofuspeedstar Alum Member
    edited September 2016 139 karma
    mine also says '5 section booklet' and then mentions AR, LR1, LR2, RC, Writing Sample and says the additional 50% time for each of those but makes no mention of an experimental section..

    Either LSAC is trolling hard and making the Writing Part "a section" or this is still just a very cruel joke.
  • SprinklesSprinkles Alum Member ⭐
    11542 karma
    @tofuspeedstar said:
    Either LSAC is trolling hard and making the Writing Part "a section" or this is still just a very cruel joke.
    What is literally happening :(
  • Matthew524Matthew524 Member
    651 karma
    @tofuspeedstar @montaha.rizeq @LawTweet People with accommodations have the experimental section. I confirmed with the LSAC multiple times and on my Confirmation letter it says 5 section test booklet and it says the variable section receives just as much time as the other sections. So we will take 5 sections and a writing sample.
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