Why do you think so many people scored below their average on the September LSAT?

Comments

• bjphillips5 Alum Member

  October 2016 1137 karma

  I'm not sure the test is getting harder. I think, for PT79 (Sept 2016) there was a higher chance to get thrown off by the order of the passages. The second passage (Eileen Gray) was the hardest (I think). And the virus game really threw people off just because it wasn't an ordinary game. That doesn't mean harder, necessarily. Plus, people usually score lower on test day because of anxiety and adrenaline and test day ridiculousness. The virus game and early, hard passage may have just exacerbated it.
• 1 Like

  Alex Alum Member ⭐

  October 2016 edited October 2016 23929 karma

  @combsni
  
  Not abnormal at all. I'm a nerd and have long frequented law school forums and it is always the same story. A lot of people score below their PTs for a plethora of reasons and rumors of the test getting harder follow.
  
  I think the topic of whether the test is getting harder has been discussed nearly ad nauseam at this point, and I think the consensus is that it isn't harder per say, but it is different. So the fundamentals they are testing remain static; logic and reasoning skills, arguments, reading comprehension; but the way they are testing it is a bit different.
  
  Friends who have taken the more recent tests --which I am saving for when I am closer to sitting for the test-- have told me that the assumptions are getting more subtle, that the stims are longer and more convoluted, and that harder questions appear earlier on in LR to mess up your pacing.
  
  Also, at the end of the day, it is a standardized test, so I don't think it will ever be more hard; just different. If the LSAC didn't let the test evolve it would be way too easy. They have to throw curve ball games and change up things in LR and RC!
  
  
• combsni Free Trial Member

  October 2016 652 karma

  @"Alex Divine" if nerves are such an issue, couldn't one just drop the anxiety? Treat it like a practice test and realize that there is another test
• 4 Likes

  bjphillips5 Alum Member

  October 2016 1137 karma

  @combsni No. As much as I wish that were true, you can't trick your mind or nervous system into something that is objectively false (at least not easily). As someone who has dealt with nerves or anxiety my whole life, you cannot just drop it. It sucks, but you have to learn how handle it.
• 2 Likes

  Alex Alum Member ⭐

  October 2016 23929 karma

  @combsni said:
  @"Alex Divine" if nerves are such an issue, couldn't one just drop the anxiety? Treat it like a practice test and realize that there is another test
  

  Yeah, like @bjphillips5 says, it isn't that easy. I have GAD (generalized-anxiety disorder) and I take meds and stuff when needed. The thing is if anxiety was something you could control and "just drop" it wouldn't be true anxiety by definition.
  
  
  
  
• combsni Free Trial Member

  October 2016 652 karma

  @"Alex Divine" and @bjphillips5 , do we think that such a large portion suffers from true anxiety? I've been a baseball pitcher for a pretty long time and sometimes I have had to convince myself that it was just a practice session and to throw strikes like such. It's always eliminated any nerves that I have had. I also don't suffer from true anxiety
• Alex Alum Member ⭐

  October 2016 23929 karma

  @combsni said:
  do we think that such a large portion suffers from true anxiety? I've been a baseball pitcher for a pretty long time and sometimes I have had to convince myself that it was just a practice session and to throw strikes like such. It's always eliminated any nerves that I have had. I also don't suffer from true anxiety
  

  I don't know the percentages or # of people that take the LSAT with anxiety every year. I'm sure a lot of people are just simply nervous and that throws them off. Sometimes people just don't perform well under pressure.
  Also, I think a lot of people just overestimate themselves and their LSAT preparedness level based on an insufficient number of PTs.
  Simply put, there are a ton of reasons people score lower on the real test. The newer tests being a bit different than the older ones certainly played a part.
  
  
• TheLoftGuy Alum Member

  October 2016 698 karma

  I think I was simply overconfident. Case closed!
• combsni Free Trial Member

  October 2016 652 karma

  @"Alex Divine" my 70's have been a bit lower but I think the 50's were much worse
• 1 Like

  twssmith Alum ⭐

  October 2016 5120 karma

  @"Alex Divine" said:
  Simply put, there are a ton of reasons people score lower on the real test.
  

  Love this Alex! Nerves, weaknesses exposed, not PTing in real time situations before test day, issues at a bad test site, all of it adds up to the score you scored on that day.

  @"Alex Divine" said:
  I think the topic of whether the test is getting harder has been discussed nearly ad nauseam at this point, and I think the consensus is that it isn't harder per say, but it is different.
  

  Wish you could have been on Calls with Nicole Hopkins trying to emphasize the point that you made - it is a test, always testing the same skills and given the parameters of LSAC's objectives to not make the test subjective, the test in its' current format will have slight shifts because of the elevation of test prep companies, i.e. 7Sage:) Huge kudos for your tact because Nicole would lay it on the line verbally on those calls and while not X rated, they were not PG:)
• Alex Alum Member ⭐

  October 2016 23929 karma

  @twssmith ,
  
  Haha! I wish I was too, believe me. All I have are the funny stories people who were in on it like you tell me, lol!

  @twssmith said:
  Love this Alex! Nerves, weaknesses exposed, not PTing in real time situations before test day, issues at a bad test site, all of it adds up to the score you scored on that da
  

  Also, so, so much this! Things like weaknesses being exposes and not PT'ing in test day conditions is the bane of many LSATers. I think addressing this is going to be one of my biggest challenges just because I am someone who needs extreme quiet to concentrate at high levels, especially for things like logic games!
• 1 Like

  Alex Alum Member ⭐

  October 2016 23929 karma

  @combsni said:
  @"Alex Divine" my 70's have been a bit lower but I think the 50's were much worse
  

  That's awesome, haha! Now you know the 70s aren't harder at all, perhaps just a tad bit different! Consider yourself fortunate because I can't tell you how many people tell me their scores dropped 3-5 points when first hitting the 70s.
• 5 Likes

  TheMikey Alum Member

  October 2016 4196 karma

  Because Eileen Gray gave everyone a virus
• bjphillips5 Alum Member

  October 2016 1137 karma

  Amen @TheMikey
• 1 Like

  Toxoplasmosis Alum Member

  October 2016 233 karma

  Honestly I think the inspiring quote below is really important for us former September takers and future December takers to keep in mind
  
  
• combsni Free Trial Member

  October 2016 652 karma

  @"Alex Divine" I am with you, to an extant. I always make sure there is noise in the background, when taking a PT. I am worried that test 80 will carry all of my weaknesses but it could also carry my strengths
• Alex Alum Member ⭐

  October 2016 23929 karma

  @TheMikey said:
  Because Eileen Gray gave everyone a virus
  

  Ayeee ! Mikey!!
  
• 1 Like

  twssmith Alum ⭐

  October 2016 5120 karma

  @"Alex Divine" said:
  because I am someone who needs extreme quiet to concentrate at high levels, especially for things like logic games!
  

  Side note - My test site had "noise reducing fans" spread throughout our test room to drown out random noises like pencil tapping, etc by the other test takers. I really appreciated that to have a low pitch hum to drown out minor noises - Not sure if that would help your situation but something to maybe check on? I was diagnosed with Tinnitus last week with ringing of two different pitches in each ear and I know that having those noise reducing fans really helped me. Or maybe a constant drone of humming would be more distracting? Something to check on because my room was concrete and every noise would have echoed.
• 1 Like

  Alex Alum Member ⭐

  October 2016 23929 karma

  @twssmith said:
  
  

  Side note - My test site had "noise reducing fans" spread throughout our test room to drown out random noises like pencil tapping, etc by the other test takers. I really appreciated that to have a low pitch hum to drown out minor noises - Not sure if that would help your situation but something to maybe check on?
  
  
  Oh Yes! That is actually an amazing thing to look into to! I use Bose QC15 noise cancelling headphones when I study during the day because the noise in the city never stops, haha.
  
  Thanks again and I hope your tinnitus gets better
• 1 Like

  twssmith Alum ⭐

  October 2016 5120 karma

  @"Alex Divine" said:
  I hope your tinnitus gets better
  

  Lol I am learning to hum on one pitch with harmony on the other to make it fun:)
• 1 Like

  TheMikey Alum Member

  October 2016 4196 karma

  @"Alex Divine" Supp
• dudejay25 Alum Member

  October 2016 28 karma

  I don't think the test is getting harder, but I do believe test anxiety is a real thing. Taking practice exams and getting the same score over and over again can make you complement. Then when you take the real thing and encounter something slightly unusual, you get tripped up. On my previous six PT: 69, 70, 76, 77, 78, I scored within one or two points on all of them, so I had an average with very low variability. Yet scored -15 from my average on the September test. What threw me off was the first experimental games section. They were weird, and when the section is first, you don't know if you're gonna have another chance. Therefore, I took the rest of the test with so many jitters thinking I already got enough questions wrong in one section to drop me below my ideal score, and just couldn't think straight for the rest of the test. I got two entire games wrong yet re did them without answers and got them fully right within six minutes each. Anxiety is real, and I am thinking about taking a beta blocker for December to calm my nerves.
• katherine.t Alum Member

  October 2016 101 karma

  I actually scored better in June than I did in September... after 2 extra months of full time studying and another 15 PTs... At this point, the LSAT feels more luck of the draw than anything else
• Alex Alum Member ⭐

  October 2016 edited October 2016 23929 karma

  < phenomenon block quote >@katherine.t said:
  At this point, the LSAT feels more luck of the draw than anything else
  
  
  I hear ya! But that is the phenomenon known as learned helplessness taking hold. Even if it feels like luck, you have to remember it is not. The luck is whether or not you get a test that exploits your weaknesses or not. In order to avoid this, one must make sure they have covered all bases and have no weaknesses.
  
  
• combsni Free Trial Member

  October 2016 652 karma

  @"Alex Divine" it is luck , considering that certain tests exploit certain weaknesses. So if I take an exam that literally plays to all of my strengths, I had nothing to do with the composition of the exam. Wouldn't you call that a matter of luck ?
• 1 Like

  twssmith Alum ⭐

  October 2016 edited October 2016 5120 karma

  Yes, certain tests can flip-flop on what is challenging depending on strengths/weaknesses, but imo I think that the order of the sections on Test day can play an added extra layer of "luck". There are some that the experimental was so hard earlier in their test sequence that it rattled them to the point is was hard to recover.
  
  Edited to add:

  @combsni said:
  @"Alex Divine" it is luck , considering that certain tests exploit certain weaknesses.
  

  I agree with Alex that if you are prepared, then it isn't a matter of luck. If you aren't thoroughly prepared and write the test then you are willing to spin the roulette wheel to "hope" that you get lucky.

  @combsni said:
  an exam that literally plays to all of my strengths
  

  Then you prepared the best you could in those areas, but I have rarely heard of someone lucking into a score in the 170+. This discussion is really irrelevant unless you discuss what score band you are identifying.
• Alex Alum Member ⭐

  October 2016 edited October 2016 23929 karma

  @combsni said:
  @"Alex Divine" it is luck , considering that certain tests exploit certain weaknesses. So if I take an exam that literally plays to all of my strengths, I had nothing to do with the composition of the exam. Wouldn't you call that a matter of luck ?
  

  Did you read my whole comment? I describe what you're talking about and refer to that as the "luck."

  @"Alex Divine" said:
  The luck is whether or not you get a test that exploits your weaknesses or not.
  

  So like @twssmith says above,

  @twssmith said:
  if you are prepared, then it isn't a matter of luck. If you aren't thoroughly prepared and write the test then you are willing to spin the roulette wheel to "hope" that you get lucky.
  

  
  I think that is the perfect way to put it, @twssmith !
  
  @combsni, luck is something that is really metaphysical and hard to define. I guess I should have elaborated before, but the point of my OP was to make sure LSATers stave off the idea of learned helplessness, whereby one develops a sense of powerlessness over the test. Once you start assigning luck to any part of the test, problems are bound to arise. If you start attributing when you do bad to bad luck, your brain will begin to fall in to the pattern of thinking that good tests are just good luck. See the issue there? I think it is best to forget luck all together. A real man makes his own luck!
  
  Besides, if you get a test that plays to ALL your strengths and NONE of your weaknesses as you say, then that isn't luck; that is straight up divine intervention, haha!