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In/Out games are the bane of my existence

WalliumsWalliums Member
in Logic Games 373 karma

My biggest issue with logic games right now is timing, which I've had a lot of success in getting down for most game types. The one that I continue to struggle with are in/out games. I almost always get all of the questions correct, but in/out games will usually take me between 12-15 minutes to do.

I have an incredibly hard time making inferences in a timely manner with in/out games. Not so with other types, and I'm not sure why in/out is the biggest struggle for me. Identifying "not both" pairs has been a help, but does anyone have any suggestions or strategies or just advice on how to get things to start clicking with in/out? I've been drilling in/out games and will get it after a while but, that first take is always a difficult one.

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  • goingfor99thgoingfor99th Free Trial Member
    3072 karma

    If you would tell me which particular in/out games you struggle most with, I may be able to give you some insight.

  • AlexAlex Alum Member ⭐
    23929 karma

    How are you with conditional logic? Getting really good and quick with it is imperative to do well on in and out games. They also used to be the bane of my existence, but I got much better as I began to truly get good with my conditional logic. So when they tell me a rule, I diagram it automatically and can see the contrapositive in my head.

  • Cant Get RightCant Get Right Yearly + Live Member Sage ⭐ 🍌 7Sage Tutor
    27900 karma

    Yeah, In/Out started as a big weakness for me, but now I burn through them with about the highest speed and accuracy of any game type. Agreed with @"Alex Divine" on comfort with conditional logic being imperative. If you're struggling with that at all, address it first. Distribution is also huge in any grouping game, so make sure you're giving that the attention it deserves.

    A great exercise is to split the boards into all possible sub game boards. That's terrible to do under time (usually), but as an exercise, it's great for showing you how things play out.

  • Heart Shaped BoxHeart Shaped Box Alum Member ⭐
    edited March 2017 2426 karma

    Definitely agreed with @"Alex Divine" @"Cant Get Right" . Conditional logic is the corner stone of in/out games, due to the limitation of the either "in" or else "out" nature. And bc of this unique feature of this type of grouping games, I would be really wary on the notion that when out slots are full, everything else automatically goes in, or vice versa. It's an unstated inference/trick the test writers pull on this kind of games over and over and over, for there is really not much else they could do due to the slot limitations. So they will never explicitly tell us, it's up to us to infer. If we see it, it's a under 6/7 mins game with everything pretty solved (many cases). If we don't...oh well, you see where I'm going with this.

    Another thing they could pull is to hide it by giving us a disguised in/out without saying so. But if we are mindful of this type of games "trademark" feature of in/out, meaning all games pieces need to be used exactly once between 2 and exactly 2 groups (in/out), whether they word it as appetizer/main dish, Souththenty/Northernwing, boat 1/2, or whatever, we know it's an in/out game. When you have the correct game board in mind, you've won half the battle there.

    Last but not least is the importance of visually representing "or" and "not both" rules, for it allows you to "see" the slot limitations, which again goes back to the above point---it's all about the limitation of in/out, and there is really, really only so much they could do bc of this limitation. I would be mindful of "or/not both" rule when it's across the categories, as I personally wouldn't visually represent them under such situations.

    Just to sum up: if the stimulus says all game pieces used exactly once between exactly 2 groups, we got an in/out. Once we have the board, be extra cautious on: or/not both/bi-conditional rules, which would be destined to trigger the scenario of when one category full, everything else goes in the other. But just exactly like what @"Alex Divine" and @"Cant Get Right" said above, you've "got to" be fluent with conditional logic, it's the necessary condition of everything in such games and there are no other ways around it. So I would go back to the CC conditional lessons and drill the crap out of the quizzes there and then pull out all the in/out games using Q banks under 7sage and drill the crap out of those. When you finished such a comprehensive process, I can promise you you will improve.

    Good luck and keep us posted on your progress.

  • WalliumsWalliums Member
    373 karma

    Thank you all for your help! I don't think I am weak at conditional logic but I'm not fantastic at it either. I have little issue with conditional logic for sequencing games - I think I am just naturally better at ordering things than grouping them!

    I'll hit up the CC again and the quizzes and see where I am after that. @"Alex Divine" @"Cant Get Right" @"Heart Shaped Box"

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