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Applying to both LLM and JD programs. Need advice.

navacuenca92navacuenca92 Alum Member
edited October 2017 in Law School Admissions 57 karma

Hello everyone!

I am a foreign attorney and since I'm planning to live in the States, I want to have a J.D. My dream is to go to a Top 15 Law School, but since I don't know if I'll be able to get the score (My highest score was 164 this week, but I've been averaging 161 the past month), I have considered applying to both LLMs (in which LSAT is not required) and JDs. That way my chances of being admitted to a top 15 would increase. But lately, I've been having serious doubts and I would like to hear other opinions regarding the following options:

-Would it be better to have a Master's from a really good school like Harvard or Yale and then transfer to another school (not every school accepts LLM to JD transfers), or would it be better to be admitted to a top 25 school JD program, and then trying to transfer on the 2L to an even better school?
-Do you think that it would be counterproductive to apply to both the LLM and JD program within the same school? Let's take for example Columbia, which is my dream school. In case I don't get admitted to a JD program, I could still get admitted to the LLM. But I am afraid that the admissions council would think that I am just applying in a "volume" format, trying to send as many applications as I can or that they might say "Well he has a good JD profile, but he would definitely be a better fit to our LLM program".

Does anyone know someone that has applied to both programs?

Since I am planning to spend a lot of money on application fees (crying), I really want to make the correct decision. Moreover, the deadline for the LLM programs is December 15th, which means that I won't have my LSAT score by then.

Please feel free to comment and share your thoughts since I am really looking for help!

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Comments

  • NotMyNameNotMyName Alum Member Sage ⭐
    5320 karma

    I'm a little confused by your question. Do you intend to practice law in the US? If so, then there are very few exceptions where you may take the bar exam without a JD. It sounds as if you are considering forgoing the JD in favor of an LLM from a top school? If that's the case, then California, Virginia, Washington, and Vermont are the only exceptions where you may take the bar (require for practice in the US and specific to each state generally speaking), however you need to apprentice in place of the JD.

    Ok, with that out of the way. I don't think schools see dual applications to JD and LLM in a negative light. In fact, it seems the opposite for several schools who market their dual programs. I am considering a dual masters myself though not LLM.

    How long have you been studying? A 160-165 will likely keep you out of the T14. You may consider post-poning to bump that score (more scholarship and more acceptances).

    In terms of hiring with consideration of an LLM, I have no freaking clue lol. Sorry I can't help there. However, my understanding is that the lower in school rank you attend, the higher in class rank you must be to compete. That is actually good news in my opinion especially in your circumstance. As someone with a law career under their belt already, you would probably have a leg up on most students. Finishing in the top 10% of of a top 30 school probably competes with finishing in the top 50-70% of a T14 school roughly speaking.

    Is any of that helpful?

  • Rigid DesignatorRigid Designator Alum Member
    edited October 2017 1091 karma

    In terms of what would be counterproductive, if the LLM asks for very different application materials to the JD, you might want to assess whether you have the time to get both applications completed to a high standard.

    For example, I'm having this exact worry as I think about applying for both an MPhil and a PhD here in Europe. For one I'd need a writing sample, personal statement etc. For another I'd need a longer writing sample taken my from my thesis, and also a research proposal. I'd also need to be writing extra essays to apply for funding. Since this is a lot of work, and since the MPhil/PhD option is less attractive to me than law school, I'm seriously considering just sticking to the Law School application. If I can't do my MPhil/PhD applications justice, my reasoning is why bother at all?

    This isn't to suggest your situation is the same as mine. But I'd just make sure you'll be able to find the time to nail both applications.

  • thisisspartathisissparta Alum Member
    edited October 2017 1363 karma

    @jkatz1488 said:
    I'm a little confused by your question. Do you intend to practice law in the US? If so, then there are very few exceptions where you may take the bar exam without a JD. It sounds as if you are considering forgoing the JD in favor of an LLM from a top school? If that's the case, then California, Virginia, Washington, and Vermont are the only exceptions where you may take the bar (require for practice in the US and specific to each state generally speaking), however you need to apprentice in place of the JD.

    Ok, with that out of the way. I don't think schools see dual applications to JD and LLM in a negative light. In fact, it seems the opposite for several schools who market their dual programs. I am considering a dual masters myself though not LLM.

    How long have you been studying? A 160-165 will likely keep you out of the T14. You may consider post-poning to bump that score (more scholarship and more acceptances).

    In terms of hiring with consideration of an LLM, I have no freaking clue lol. Sorry I can't help there. However, my understanding is that the lower in school rank you attend, the higher in class rank you must be to compete. That is actually good news in my opinion especially in your circumstance. As someone with a law career under their belt already, you would probably have a leg up on most students. Finishing in the top 10% of of a top 30 school probably competes with finishing in the top 50-70% of a T14 school roughly speaking.

    Is any of that helpful?

    According to chart 4 on this website, http://www.ncbex.org/publications/bar-admissions-guide/, it's Wisconsin, California, New York, Vermont and Washington. OP, you should have a look at the chart too :)

    @navacuenca92 I know you didn't really ask this question, but I'd just like to add that in terms of financial prudence, I'd suggest just pursuing an LLM might be a wiser decision, IMO (assuming you wouldn't mind working in the aforementioned states). Considering the fact that you've already obtained a law degree, you'd be saving time and money, if you chose not to pursue a JD at this point. If your grades + work experience/ECs are considered competitive at the higher ranked schools for the LLM programs, I really don't think you should waste time preparing apps for the JD program. Again though, this is just me.

  • NotMyNameNotMyName Alum Member Sage ⭐
    5320 karma

    @thisissparta thanks for correcting! your source is much better than mine!

  • dennisgerrarddennisgerrard Member
    1644 karma

    Go to Georgetown. They just start to accept LLM transfer to JD.

  • MAMagzjdMAMagzjd Alum Member
    21 karma

    Hi! I know this post is an old one and has not been active anymore for quite sometime, but I was just wondering if you proceeded with your plan on applying to both llm and jd with the same school and if you had problems applying to both programs. I was thinking of doing the same thing. I am a foreign attorney and plan to work here in the US as well. I am unsure which one to pursue yet, so I wanted to have my options open.

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