LR Timing: "10 in 10" vs "Giving the question the time it needs"

jeffsimo28

I've been really struggling with LR timing. I watched the webinar here (https://7sage.com/webinar/timing-and-levels-of-certainty/), in which they suggested not spending more than 3 minutes or so on a question because there's a better chance you'll just get it wrong. But other people have suggested 'giving the question the time it needs,' not being afraid to invest 3 minutes into a question rather than rushing and getting it wrong.

Then, there's the '10 in 10' or '15 in 15' idea where you push to finish questions in a given amount of time.

I've only been getting through 17-20 questions per LR, getting 2-3 of those wrong, plus the ones I don't get to for a total of 6-9 questions wrong per LR for the past few months with no change. I'd really appreciate any thoughts people have on this and how to manage the ideas of investing time required and skipping when appropriate.

tanes256

@jeffsimo28 have you found that you're spending a lot of time on the ones that you got wrong? If so, I would say it's not worth it. Even if you do get those 2-3 right, you still got the ones you didn't attempt wrong because you didn't have enough time. No question is worth more than another so if you're stuck guess and move on and try to come back at the end.

Accounts Playable

Sometimes the reward for taking the time the question needs doesn't exceed the cost of doing so. For practical purposes, doing well on the LSAT really is about allocating your time to where you manage the number of questions you miss. I used a hard one minute standard in which if I didn't have an answer to the question in one minute, I automatically skipped it no matter where I was. At the end of the section, I'd have about 10 minutes to go back to skipped questions. Time is much better spent answering questions you are 80%+ confident on first and then spend the remaining time on questions you are more likely to miss. In the vast majority of cases the pool of 5-8 skipped questions would be where my misses would come from. It's better not to spend an extra 30 seconds to a minute on a question that you are likely to miss anyway--especially at the expense of questions 23,24, and 25 which may be easier.

Mellow_Z

@jeffsimo28 said:
I've been really struggling with LR timing. I watched the webinar here (https://7sage.com/webinar/timing-and-levels-of-certainty/), in which they suggested not spending more than 3 minutes or so on a question because there's a better chance you'll just get it wrong. But other people have suggested 'giving the question the time it needs,' not being afraid to invest 3 minutes into a question rather than rushing and getting it wrong.

This philosophy greatly applies to some question types more than others. For example, parallel reasoning questions are typically pretty easy to solve, IF you take the time to diagram everything out and match them up. Diagramming 6 arguments (question + 5 AC's) is very, very time consuming. If you had 3 minutes at the end of a section, this is one that you could return to and "give the question the time it needs". However, if it's a more generic question type that requires understanding of the argument, NA/SA/MSS/etc.. if you don’t get this within the first minute, you likely just don’t understand it, which ultimately leads to it being more difficult to get correct by spending another 2 minutes on it.

Then, there's the '10 in 10' or '15 in 15' idea where you push to finish questions in a given amount of time.

This is another strategy to work on timing with “easy” LR questions. You should get to the point where you can just plow through the lower difficulty questions relying solely on muscle memory and intuition. The first 10-15 questions (barring a random curve breaker) basically all follow a cookie cutter template that LSAT recycles, so people recommend getting through these copy/paste problems as quickly as possible, to give yourself more time on the hard questions. If you got through 15 questions in 15 minutes (the easiest questions in the section), that leaves you 20 minutes for the remaining 10. Some of these will be easier than others, but for the incredibly difficult questions you are then able to take 2-3 minutes on them to proprly diagram everything and figure out.

I've only been getting through 17-20 questions per LR, getting 2-3 of those wrong, plus the ones I don't get to for a total of 6-9 questions wrong per LR for the past few months with no change. I'd really appreciate any thoughts people have on this and how to manage the ideas of investing time required and skipping when appropriate.

If you are still not getting to the last 5-8 questions, you should figure out which question types give you the most difficulty (in terms of comprehension AND timing), and skip them. Mark them down so you can return to them later. Chances are you could likely solve a few of the remaining questions you don’t even get to correctly, which will outweigh the incorrect answers that you spend 2-3 minutes on in the first half of the section.

TheMikey

I think that what you're referring to when people say give a question the time it needs, they mean (just like accounts playable said) having skipped that question and going back to it at the end when you have extra time and have already gotten to the end of the section.

AllezAllez21

Great advice above.

Not getting to 5-8 questions is definitely selling yourself short. Watch the webinar on skipping. Almost never should 3 minutes be spent on a question. You are much better off skipping hard questions in the middle to get to those 2-3 easy questions at the end of the section.

The 10 in 10 philosophy should be followed in spirit, rather than to the letter, in my opinion. For me, I try to do questions in under a minute but I am willing to spend up to 1:30 on a question. After that, it's truly not worth it. There are other questions to be done that are easier. As said by others above, giving a question proper time and attention is often best done by going on to other questions, letting your subconscious work on it, and coming back to it at the end of the section.

It also depends on where you are with your prep and when you are taking the test. If you're set on taking it in June and your goal is not a 170+, then it's fine to just really practice a great skipping strategy. If you still have time, then focus on deep fundamentals of understanding and really mastering the material. That will pay off more than learning how to go marginally faster on the test.

NotMyName

Skipping is perhaps most underrated soft skill in my opinion. 7Sage seems to be the only community which discusses it at the level of consideration it deserves. I agree with all the info above -- great advice from some really smart people.

Sometimes we just don't "get" a question because we misread/misinterpret the stimulus. Perhaps the question is hard or maybe it's really easy -- difficult to say because we had a bad read (and may not know it). Here, too, skipping is useful. For whatever reason, these questions almost always become very clear to me if I skip and return.

Alex

@"Accounts Playable" said:
Sometimes the reward for taking the time the question needs doesn't exceed the cost of doing so. For practical purposes, doing well on the LSAT really is about allocating your time to where you manage the number of questions you miss. I used a hard one minute standard in which if I didn't have an answer to the question in one minute, I automatically skipped it no matter where I was. At the end of the section, I'd have about 10 minutes to go back to skipped questions. Time is much better spent answering questions you are 80%+ confident on first and then spend the remaining time on questions you are more likely to miss. In the vast majority of cases the pool of 5-8 skipped questions would be where my misses would come from. It's better not to spend an extra 30 seconds to a minute on a question that you are likely to miss anyway--especially at the expense of questions 23,24, and 25 which may be easier.

100% this.

JustDoIt

I think the 10 in 10 strategy is quite different from 25 in 25. 10 in 10 should almost be done straight through with few skips. This is because the first 10 are the easiest questions, generally. Many of the skips should actually come around question 14 or later.

This is not to say that you shouldn't skip in the beginning. You should skip any question that gives you trouble. But I think 10 in 10 works primarily because those questions are easier.

tylerdschreur10

I think it's important to recognize the nature of the beast that is Logical Reasoning. Much of what these questions are doing is testing the way your brain works, and everyone's brain works differently. I find LR sections to be easier than say, RC, so I usually do the whole section eliminate clearly wrong answers and select the best of the remaining options and finish with 10ish minutes to spare. I'll then circle back to questions where I was picking between 2 or more possibilities and either confirm or refute my i selection. However if you're having trouble with a higher number of questions, there may be value for you in strict budgeting of your time, ie a minute per question. Or some analysis of your PTs may reveal a certain question type that you need help with, or radical as it sounds, you may have to resort to skipping said question type and spending that time on getting as many of your stronger variety of questions correct. Its all trial and error, do a lot of PTs using different methods and see what gives you confidence and what yields the best results.

akistotle

@jeffsimo28 said:
I've only been getting through 17-20 questions per LR, getting 2-3 of those wrong, plus the ones I don't get to for a total of 6-9 questions wrong per LR for the past few months with no change.

I recommend video-recording yourself doing a PT and identify how much time you're spending on each question and what question type takes up time. You may be spending too much time on wrong answer choices when you could have just moved on.

I've been PTing for the last several months, and while my BR scores increased, I'm not doing well on my score has been stagnant, and I didn't know what to do. I am yet unable to say that my score increased doing this because I've only recorded myself once during the last PT, but I'm learning so much from the video, and it's now clear to me what I have to improve on.

twssmith

Completely agree with the skipping concepts shared above!

Last year, Jimmy @"Quick Silver" phrased the strategy that really helped me understand what 10 in 10 really meant - it is a "NET" 10 in 10 minutes type of concept - you may be on Q15 in 10 minutes but you have confidently answered 10 questions and maybe skipped 5 - some may be marked to return to eliminate between 2 AC's & others are curve breakers that are going to consume a significant chunk of time that are better left to tackle at the very end of the section if time permits.

Using LSAC's Superprep II book, I made graphs of how "LSAC" defined the difficulty of the LR questions for PT 62 & 63 on a scale of 1-5 difficulty. The 10-10 strategy was incredible to build momentum and confidence but seems that LSAC caught on to that & will throw curve breakers anywhere within the section. Another thing to remember that everyone has different strengths & weaknesses within the test so not all questions equate equally in difficulty from one person to the next. The more confident you are in skipping, the stronger your knowledge of the test will become, hope this helps:)

https://7sage.com/discussion/#/discussion/comment/66102

jeffsimo28

Wow, thanks for the suggestions everyone! Skipping strategy seems to be a resonant idea, and one that was mentioned in the webinar. I'm definitely going to work on just disengaging and coming back to a question. I'm also working on confidently moving on and not checking and checking after I choose an answer choice, as well as minimizing engagement with answer choices where possible (i.e. Hunt Mode) to prevent myself from picking trap ACs. Really appreciate everyone's thoughts!