s

lavender robbins

x

Alex

If you are not a URM, you will likely not be admitted to HLS. Even with a unique resume, great softs, and work experience, your LSAT is just too low. If you really want H, retake and aim for the 173 range and your chances will be much better.

If you are a URM you definitely have a chance. Though, still, it seems like a 168 is the magic AA URM number for H students with GPAs in your range.

Unfortunately, your time management skills not allowing for sufficient LSAT prep isn't going to make admissions personal forgive your lower LSAT. Also, your resume is not all that unique when compared to many top applicants. I played varsity Basketball, was student body president, and graduated top of my class. I also have spent most of the past 2 years working on wall street and still admissions consultants and others have told me my softs and resume are average at best.

With the HYS applicant we're talking Rhodes scholar's, non profit work, and interning on presidential campaigns. Hate to be the bearer of bad news.... Just the way it is.

Good news is there is no reason you can't retake to get that LSAT where it needs to be with your GPA. If it's really what you want, then go for it. Ask yourself why H though? Is there a specific reason or just the prestige and name?

lavender robbins

Thanks for your input. With Harvard now accepting GRE scores and my GRE score which I got last year being much higher percentage wise, do you think it would better serve me to just apply with the GRE and hope to get in as my LSAT won't bring their numbers down? I'm also not a URM

Mellow_Z

@"lavender robbins" said:
Thanks for your input. With Harvard now accepting GRE scores and my GRE score which I got last year being much higher percentage wise, do you think it would better serve me to just apply with the GRE and hope to get in as my LSAT won't bring their numbers down? I'm also not a URM

I'd say that's a safer (and likely better) option, personally. There isn't any information to say what percentile of GRE is enough to gain admission however. So until we see a few cycles of acceptances/denials, it's going to be hard to say what GRE will get you in. Ultimately, a high LSAT score will always be desired over a high GRE, at least until ABA starts reporting GRE figures.

Accounts Playable

You would report both your LSAT and GRE score. Your GPA is right around median, so that doesn't make you out of the running. I'd say to have a good shot, you'd need an above median LSAT score. For ECs, work experience is going to be the most valuable thing to add to a resume.

Alex

@"lavender robbins" said:
Thanks for your input. With Harvard now accepting GRE scores and my GRE score which I got last year being much higher percentage wise, do you think it would better serve me to just apply with the GRE and hope to get in as my LSAT won't bring their numbers down? I'm also not a URM

Depends what percentage wise we are talking. If below 90th%tile then I don't think it will help much. If you want H retake the LSAT. As your numbers stand now you will not gain admission.

Rigid Designator

@"Alex Divine" said:
With the HYS applicant we're talking Rhodes scholar's, non profit work, and interning on presidential campaigns. Hate to be the bearer of bad news.... Just the way it is.

Sorry to hijack the thread, but can I ask why you list non profit work among things like campaign internships? Is non-profit work viewed highly by ad-coms, or HYS? I'm just curious since I work for a non-profit yet I would feel severely lacking in softs if I compared myself to someone with such a prestigious internship.

Alex

@"Rigid Designator" said:

@"Alex Divine" said:
With the HYS applicant we're talking Rhodes scholar's, non profit work, and interning on presidential campaigns. Hate to be the bearer of bad news.... Just the way it is.

Sorry to hijack the thread, but can I ask why you list non profit work among things like campaign internships? Is non-profit work viewed highly by ad-coms, or HYS? I'm just curious since I work for a non-profit yet I would feel severely lacking in softs if I compared myself to someone with such a prestigious internship.

Well, there are prestigious non profits and then there are the other ones... It was probably a poor example to use. I don't actually have a good answer, haha. And not just any campaign, I mean like Senator/Gov/Presidential. Not going door to door getting signatures for Comptroller of District 39. Again, just a confusing and bad example.

Don't stress so much about WE for admissions. Numbers do 90+% of the work. the real reason why WE is so valuable is when you graduate and need to find a job or during OCI 1L and all you have on your resume are Dicks Sporting Goods and some internship. I'm not saying it's bad or anything, but it's really hard to get a legal job at a firm with lack of some professional work experience. Still absolutely doable with of your 1L grades are good. Yet, having some solid work on your resume is only going to help. And as far as admissions, from the books I've read and consultants I've briefly messaged, the admissions people don't seem to care nearly as much about work experience as we tend to think. They certainly do, but it's a soft factor like anything else. Number are sin qua non for law school. period.

Sorry again for the poor example with the non-profit.

ajcrowel

@"Alex Divine" said:
If you are not a URM, you will likely not be admitted to HLS. Even with a unique resume, great softs, and work experience, your LSAT is just too low. If you really want H, retake and aim for the 173 range and your chances will be much better.

If you are a URM you definitely have a chance. Though, still, it seems like a 168 is the magic AA URM number for H students with GPAs in your range.

Unfortunately, your time management skills not allowing for sufficient LSAT prep isn't going to make admissions personal forgive your lower LSAT. Also, your resume is not all that unique when compared to many top applicants. I played varsity Basketball, was student body president, and graduated top of my class. I also have spent most of the past 2 years working on wall street and still admissions consultants and others have told me my softs and resume are average at best.

With the HYS applicant we're talking Rhodes scholar's, non profit work, and interning on presidential campaigns. Hate to be the bearer of bad news.... Just the way it is.

Good news is there is no reason you can't retake to get that LSAT where it needs to be with your GPA. If it's really what you want, then go for it. Ask yourself why H though? Is there a specific reason or just the prestige and name?

I'm going to second Alex here. He's right. I will say that's there's strong anecdotal evidence that Rhodes, Marshall, and Gates scholars as well as Olympians (better if you medal) and things like the Hesimann trophy do give applicants a boost beyond numbers. There may additionally be others sorts of soft factorsthat are sufficient for such a bump, but those I mentioned are certainly sufficient.
The thing with softs is 1) most are not actually uncommon among high achievers and 2) it's difficult to distinguish those opportunities that are granted to the applicant based on merit from those that are granted from socio-economic factors. In actually, every opportunity probably has a mix of each but then as an admissions officer you have to ask yourself how can you pass judgment on how 22 year old chose to invest themselves? Value would have to play some sort of role and that's not something any admissions process that purports to objectively compare candidates wants.

Safest bet is to have a strong LSAT and excellent grades as well.

Just be patient with yourself OP and do the time. The LSAT score will come. You've done big things before. You should be able to do this too. Mentality is more than half the battle.

Alex

@ajcrowel said:

@"Alex Divine" said:
If you are not a URM, you will likely not be admitted to HLS. Even with a unique resume, great softs, and work experience, your LSAT is just too low. If you really want H, retake and aim for the 173 range and your chances will be much better.

If you are a URM you definitely have a chance. Though, still, it seems like a 168 is the magic AA URM number for H students with GPAs in your range.

Unfortunately, your time management skills not allowing for sufficient LSAT prep isn't going to make admissions personal forgive your lower LSAT. Also, your resume is not all that unique when compared to many top applicants. I played varsity Basketball, was student body president, and graduated top of my class. I also have spent most of the past 2 years working on wall street and still admissions consultants and others have told me my softs and resume are average at best.

With the HYS applicant we're talking Rhodes scholar's, non profit work, and interning on presidential campaigns. Hate to be the bearer of bad news.... Just the way it is.

Good news is there is no reason you can't retake to get that LSAT where it needs to be with your GPA. If it's really what you want, then go for it. Ask yourself why H though? Is there a specific reason or just the prestige and name?

I'm going to second Alex here. He's right. I will say that's there's strong anecdotal evidence that Rhodes, Marshall, and Gates scholars as well as Olympians (better if you medal) and things like the Hesimann trophy do give applicants a boost beyond numbers. There may additionally be others sorts of soft factorsthat are sufficient for such a bump, but those I mentioned are certainly sufficient.
The thing with softs is 1) most are not actually uncommon among high achievers and 2) it's difficult to distinguish those opportunities that are granted to the applicant based on merit from those that are granted from socio-economic factors. In actually, every opportunity probably has a mix of each but then as an admissions officer you have to ask yourself how can you pass judgment on how 22 year old chose to invest themselves? Value would have to play some sort of role and that's not something any admissions process that purports to objectively compare candidates wants.

Safest bet is to have a strong LSAT and excellent grades as well.

Just be patient with yourself OP and do the time. The LSAT score will come. You've done big things before. You should be able to do this too. Mentality is more than half the battle.

Well said @ajcrowel .... Makes a lot of sense. Thank you for this!