erase parts of diagram

mzoodle

I just started watching (learning) intro to lg. JY seems to imply erasing some parts of the diagram. Why's that? And is that necessary for success?

Alex

I think he just does that in the videos because he is doing it on the screen. In real life, never erase, just cross out mistakes. Unless you absolutely are forced to. Or if you make a mistake on the answer sheet.

goingfor99th

I erase/erased often. It depends on the diagram, imo.

Alex

@goingfor99th said:
I erase/erased often. It depends on the diagram, imo.

You really shouldn't be erasing a lot on games, especially not on a timed section test. It's just not worth the time and usually looks sloppy. You may also very well ended up needing that same work for later questions. Write neat and small and then cross out if you make a mistake.

goingfor99th

When I'm able to exhaust large portions of game boards, I have to erase or I can lose track of how to progress through answer choices. I check almost every single answer choice on the LGs I do.

Other than that I don't erase much. I've never found it a problem, honestly. If anything, it feels like a strength to be able to see the game board freshly for every question. I write very legibly and lightly so erasing is easy.

goingfor99th

I also tend to scan questions and use whatever part of my board that I filled in to eliminate answer choices before I erase it.

I mark filled-in variables with a dot to differentiate them from permanent fixtures/parts of the game board that I've exhausted.

Alex

do you, homie. I just was always taught from instructors, books, JY, and tutors, that erasing is something you shouldn't be doing. Again, what if you end up needing a diagram you erased? It also is a waste of time, and the paper the real LSAT comes on is a bit different then printer paper we often practice on. Again, do what works for you.... I just learned from experience it is a lot smarter and easier to write neat and tiny than to have to be erasing.

Harrison_Pav

I don't think erasing is terrible, but it certainly should be used selectively. If I make a whole game board and have filled it out accidentally write the last game piece in as B instead of A, I may go back and erase it real fast, but with anything on this test, is erasing something worth the time? If you're on game 4 and have ten minutes left and there's only 5 questions i don't see anything wrong with erasing, but on the flip side of that, if you're on game two with 15 minutes left, and 12 questions to go, just don't even look at the eraser!

Alex

@Harrison_Pav said:
I don't think erasing is terrible, but it certainly should be used selectively. If I make a whole game board and have filled it out accidentally write the last game piece in as B instead of A, I may go back and erase it real fast, but with anything on this test, is erasing something worth the time? If you're on game 4 and have ten minutes left and there's only 5 questions i don't see anything wrong with erasing, but on the flip side of that, if you're on game two with 15 minutes left, and 12 questions to go, just don't even look at the eraser!

makes sense for sure...

vanessa fisher

I go back and forth on this a lot. I'd be open to others thoughts on this, but I don't see how you could have enough time to not erase sometimes on game boards where you have tons of sub game boards.
Do you guys really write out every single sub game board for every single questions even when you have 4 or 5 complex sub game boards? Seems like that would take up way more time (and space) that just erasing.
I tend to erase when they are complex boards with sub game boards, but I'm open to other strategies if others feel different ways work better

goingfor99th

I do my games differently than 7sage/JY, too, it should be noted.

I was -.5 average for my last 10 LG sections before my test.

Of course erasing is a selective strategy. I tend to find it useful often. Most games can be exhausted in some meaningful way. This is typically where erasing is useful. There are a few beasts that can't be exhausted much at all, though. I don't erase on many games, also.

Alex

@goingfor99th said:
I do my games differently than 7sage/JY, too, it should be noted.

I was -.5 average for my last 10 LG sections before my test.

Of course erasing is a selective strategy. I tend to find it useful often. Most games can be exhausted in some meaningful way. This is typically where erasing is useful. There are a few beasts that can't be exhausted much at all, though. I don't erase on many games, also.

I completely disagree. I think erasing on LG is a foolish and counter productive strategy. You should really never erase during LG for numerous reasons. When time matters, cross out, and move one. Again, I said it before, do you. Yet, there is a reason the best LSATers endorse not erasing on LG.

Achen165

As I examine some back and forth here, I think its absolutely important to keep in mind that different LSAT strategies work for everyone, as @"Alex Divine" mentioned. Undoubtedly, there are a variety of ways of getting answers correct with different strategies, especially with LG's. Personally, I completely re-learned how to do LG's using 7Sage's method, and I was grateful for two very important technical pieces of advice for solving LG's: write small, and don't erase. Most LSAT prep companies don't mention either. I was formerly a chronic eraser, and that is a bad habit I've been working on breaking; I have to say that if you sharpen your skills to draw better, correct, and consistent inferences, the LSAT games begin to solve themselves.

Erasing is a complete waste of time IMHO, because if you make a mistake, you won't be able to track it, and that could cost you multiple correct answers in an entire game, the entire game, or getting stuck on a game for too long that you don't finish in time. I find it helpful to have a track record of every possible scenario, even one's that don't work, as there are some LG questions that ask which elements won't work where. Some questions draw on the inferences made from a gameboard corresponding to a previous question. You also don't have time to make repeated mistakes. Surely, there's not infinite space to solve the LG's, but erasing can cause you to write out wrong setups multiple times, leaving you dazed and confused as to how to piece together inferences; there simply isn't enough time on the exam to erase. Erasing should be done if you make a chronic error in your initial master gameboard setup or if you run out of room (avoid the latter, though, by writing small and neatly).

Perhaps I am being critical, but I think that erasing too much on a LG is a bad habit and indicative of poor proficiency in LG's. Of course it's inevitable you will make a mistake, but hopefully not one so bad that you should have to start from scratch every time. I've made the mistake, when taking the official exam, of wrongfully drawing a gameboard and wasted time erasing. I should have been more careful in the beginning before writing out the gameboard. This messed up my entire LG section. Don't repeat my mistake if you can avoid it. At least, so was the case for me. Also, I'd advise to not begin forming any 'bad' LG habits (poor notation strategy, inconsistent use of notations etc.) early on in your studies, when possible, because you'll learn what works as you drill/Fool Proof games.

J.Y. erases parts of the diagrams in the video to declutter--- make space on the screen, improve neatness and directness to indicate what he is taking about, or in some cases, he is simply writing things out for the purposes of illustration (how you arrive at some inference), and erases them to show how different inferences link together. Otherwise, if you write out singular inferences and then piece them together, cross out the former. Often, though, he shows different ways that things can be written out, but those consistent mechanics come along with practice. A notable strategy to avoid errors (and erasing) would be to remember to dedicate a brief pause to ensuring the master game board setup and inference chain is as complete as possible and is correct before moving on to the questions.

I wouldn't personally advise anyone to employ an eraser-dependent method. As mentioned, the official exam is also on recycle newspaper like paper, and it makes erasing difficult and sloppy and you may tear your test booklet. Also, you need to spend between 5-8 minutes per game; each game has 5-8 questions. There's not even much time to pick up and put down a large eraser, or have your pencil doing somersaults while the clock's ticking, lol.

Alex

@achen013 said:
As I examine some back and forth here, I think its absolutely important to keep in mind that different LSAT strategies work for everyone, as @"Alex Divine" mentioned. Undoubtedly, there are a variety of ways of getting answers correct with different strategies, especially with LG's. Personally, I completely re-learned how to do LG's using 7Sage's method, and I was grateful for two very important technical pieces of advice for solving LG's: write small, and don't erase. Most LSAT prep companies don't mention either. I was formerly a chronic eraser, and that is a bad habit I've been working on breaking; I have to say that if you sharpen your skills to draw better, correct, and consistent inferences, the LSAT games begin to solve themselves.

Erasing is a complete waste of time IMHO, because if you make a mistake, you won't be able to track it, and that could cost you multiple correct answers in an entire game, the entire game, or getting stuck on a game for too long that you don't finish in time. I find it helpful to have a track record of every possible scenario, even one's that don't work, as there are some LG questions that ask which elements won't work where. Some questions draw on the inferences made from a gameboard corresponding to a previous question. You also don't have time to make repeated mistakes. Surely, there's not infinite space to solve the LG's, but erasing can cause you to write out wrong setups multiple times, leaving you dazed and confused as to how to piece together inferences; there simply isn't enough time on the exam to erase. Erasing should be done if you make a chronic error in your initial master gameboard setup or if you run out of room (avoid the latter, though, by writing small and neatly).

Perhaps I am being critical, but I think that erasing too much on a LG is a bad habit and indicative of poor proficiency in LG's. Of course it's inevitable you will make a mistake, but hopefully not one so bad that you should have to start from scratch every time. I've made the mistake, when taking the official exam, of wrongfully drawing a gameboard and wasted time erasing. I should have been more careful in the beginning before writing out the gameboard. This messed up my entire LG section. Don't repeat my mistake if you can avoid it. At least, so was the case for me. Also, I'd advise to not begin forming any 'bad' LG habits (poor notation strategy, inconsistent use of notations etc.) early on in your studies, when possible, because you'll learn what works as you drill/Fool Proof games.

J.Y. erases parts of the diagrams in the video to declutter--- make space on the screen, improve neatness and directness to indicate what he is taking about, or in some cases, he is simply writing things out for the purposes of illustration (how you arrive at some inference), and erases them to show how different inferences link together. Otherwise, if you write out singular inferences and then piece them together, cross out the former. Often, though, he shows different ways that things can be written out, but those consistent mechanics come along with practice. A notable strategy to avoid errors (and erasing) would be to remember to dedicate a brief pause to ensuring the master game board setup and inference chain is as complete as possible and is correct before moving on to the questions.

I wouldn't personally advise anyone to employ an eraser-dependent method. As mentioned, the official exam is also on recycle newspaper like paper, and it makes erasing difficult and sloppy and you may tear your test booklet. Also, you need to spend between 5-8 minutes per game; each game has 5-8 questions. There's not even much time to pick up and put down a large eraser, or have your pencil doing somersaults while the clock's ticking, lol.

Spot on analysis. If you make a mistake like filling in R instead of P in the slot, then, yeah, erasing that is probably fine and the better choice. Talking about erasing whole diagrammed set ups and what not is just a poor habit. Ultimately this is a timed exam, and something I realize although watching the live test takers and myself taking recorded LSAT sections was how much time is wasted when we don't write small and neat. Second, I can't tell you how many times I used an old diagram that wasn't even completed jus to eliminate answer choices.

You basically covered everything I wanted to say here and said it well. If erasing is working for you, I implore you to stop and start just crossing out. Sometimes things can work better but we are afraid to try something new. The habit itself to erase too much is just something you don't want to be instilling. You always want to keep your sub game boards!

Again, just so we are clear, I think it is important to point out again that we are talking about erasing full on diagrams and set ups vs. like a misplaced letter/variable/number/stray line. The latter is perfectly normal, but the former is going to cause you, at the very LEAST, time and bad habits.

goingfor99th

@"Alex Divine" said:

@goingfor99th said:
I do my games differently than 7sage/JY, too, it should be noted.

I was -.5 average for my last 10 LG sections before my test.

Of course erasing is a selective strategy. I tend to find it useful often. Most games can be exhausted in some meaningful way. This is typically where erasing is useful. There are a few beasts that can't be exhausted much at all, though. I don't erase on many games, also.

I completely disagree. I think erasing on LG is a foolish and counter productive strategy. You should really never erase during LG for numerous reasons. When time matters, cross out, and move one. Again, I said it before, do you. Yet, there is a reason the best LSATers endorse not erasing on LG.

It seems such a closed-minded approach to declare something like this.

I will 'do me,' for sure.

(Who knew people could get so defensive about their methods? lolol)

How do you employ exhaustion on your LG, Alex? I'm curious. How do you structure your linear games? Are the variables above or below your board?

goingfor99th

@"Alex Divine" said:

@achen013 said:
As I examine some back and forth here, I think its absolutely important to keep in mind that different LSAT strategies work for everyone, as @"Alex Divine" mentioned. Undoubtedly, there are a variety of ways of getting answers correct with different strategies, especially with LG's. Personally, I completely re-learned how to do LG's using 7Sage's method, and I was grateful for two very important technical pieces of advice for solving LG's: write small, and don't erase. Most LSAT prep companies don't mention either. I was formerly a chronic eraser, and that is a bad habit I've been working on breaking; I have to say that if you sharpen your skills to draw better, correct, and consistent inferences, the LSAT games begin to solve themselves.

Erasing is a complete waste of time IMHO, because if you make a mistake, you won't be able to track it, and that could cost you multiple correct answers in an entire game, the entire game, or getting stuck on a game for too long that you don't finish in time. I find it helpful to have a track record of every possible scenario, even one's that don't work, as there are some LG questions that ask which elements won't work where. Some questions draw on the inferences made from a gameboard corresponding to a previous question. You also don't have time to make repeated mistakes. Surely, there's not infinite space to solve the LG's, but erasing can cause you to write out wrong setups multiple times, leaving you dazed and confused as to how to piece together inferences; there simply isn't enough time on the exam to erase. Erasing should be done if you make a chronic error in your initial master gameboard setup or if you run out of room (avoid the latter, though, by writing small and neatly).

Perhaps I am being critical, but I think that erasing too much on a LG is a bad habit and indicative of poor proficiency in LG's. Of course it's inevitable you will make a mistake, but hopefully not one so bad that you should have to start from scratch every time. I've made the mistake, when taking the official exam, of wrongfully drawing a gameboard and wasted time erasing. I should have been more careful in the beginning before writing out the gameboard. This messed up my entire LG section. Don't repeat my mistake if you can avoid it. At least, so was the case for me. Also, I'd advise to not begin forming any 'bad' LG habits (poor notation strategy, inconsistent use of notations etc.) early on in your studies, when possible, because you'll learn what works as you drill/Fool Proof games.

J.Y. erases parts of the diagrams in the video to declutter--- make space on the screen, improve neatness and directness to indicate what he is taking about, or in some cases, he is simply writing things out for the purposes of illustration (how you arrive at some inference), and erases them to show how different inferences link together. Otherwise, if you write out singular inferences and then piece them together, cross out the former. Often, though, he shows different ways that things can be written out, but those consistent mechanics come along with practice. A notable strategy to avoid errors (and erasing) would be to remember to dedicate a brief pause to ensuring the master game board setup and inference chain is as complete as possible and is correct before moving on to the questions.

I wouldn't personally advise anyone to employ an eraser-dependent method. As mentioned, the official exam is also on recycle newspaper like paper, and it makes erasing difficult and sloppy and you may tear your test booklet. Also, you need to spend between 5-8 minutes per game; each game has 5-8 questions. There's not even much time to pick up and put down a large eraser, or have your pencil doing somersaults while the clock's ticking, lol.

Spot on analysis. If you make a mistake like filling in R instead of P in the slot, then, yeah, erasing that is probably fine and the better choice. Talking about erasing whole diagrammed set ups and what not is just a poor habit. Ultimately this is a timed exam, and something I realize although watching the live test takers and myself taking recorded LSAT sections was how much time is wasted when we don't write small and neat. Second, I can't tell you how many times I used an old diagram that wasn't even completed jus to eliminate answer choices.

You basically covered everything I wanted to say here and said it well. If erasing is working for you, I implore you to stop and start just crossing out. Sometimes things can work better but we are afraid to try something new. The habit itself to erase too much is just something you don't want to be instilling. You always want to keep your sub game boards!

Again, just so we are clear, I think it is important to point out again that we are talking about erasing full on diagrams and set ups vs. like a misplaced letter/variable/number/stray line. The latter is perfectly normal, but the former is going to cause you, at the very LEAST, time and bad habits.

Yeah, I'm talking about erasing one or two variables I've placed into my semi-complete game board. Many games ask/require you to temporarily place variables. I'm not sure what kind of erasure you think I'm doing lol. If I mess up an entire game board, obviously I don't erase it. (There's no way that's what you thought I meant.) I'll even cross out a universe or a row on my boards v. erase it if it's no longer useful/a distraction.

With all that said, the ability to know when to erase is definitely a critical skill to have if your goal is perfect LGs. My boards are very small and neat already lol.

vanessa fisher

I think there is a difference between erasing whole game boards (which I agree is stupid) and erasing variables in gameboards for new set ups. I just think when you have a ton of sub game boards with a ton of categories, writing them all out for each question takes up a ton of time. Maybe I'm wrong. I'll try both approaches and see.

If it is a simple game or just two sub game boards than I always just write out the board again. When it is a complex game with 4 or 5 boards, I don't see the logic in writing out all game boards for each question. I just erase the variables and enter new ones

Alex

@goingfor99th said:

@"Alex Divine" said:

@achen013 said:
As I examine some back and forth here, I think its absolutely important to keep in mind that different LSAT strategies work for everyone, as @"Alex Divine" mentioned. Undoubtedly, there are a variety of ways of getting answers correct with different strategies, especially with LG's. Personally, I completely re-learned how to do LG's using 7Sage's method, and I was grateful for two very important technical pieces of advice for solving LG's: write small, and don't erase. Most LSAT prep companies don't mention either. I was formerly a chronic eraser, and that is a bad habit I've been working on breaking; I have to say that if you sharpen your skills to draw better, correct, and consistent inferences, the LSAT games begin to solve themselves.

Erasing is a complete waste of time IMHO, because if you make a mistake, you won't be able to track it, and that could cost you multiple correct answers in an entire game, the entire game, or getting stuck on a game for too long that you don't finish in time. I find it helpful to have a track record of every possible scenario, even one's that don't work, as there are some LG questions that ask which elements won't work where. Some questions draw on the inferences made from a gameboard corresponding to a previous question. You also don't have time to make repeated mistakes. Surely, there's not infinite space to solve the LG's, but erasing can cause you to write out wrong setups multiple times, leaving you dazed and confused as to how to piece together inferences; there simply isn't enough time on the exam to erase. Erasing should be done if you make a chronic error in your initial master gameboard setup or if you run out of room (avoid the latter, though, by writing small and neatly).

Perhaps I am being critical, but I think that erasing too much on a LG is a bad habit and indicative of poor proficiency in LG's. Of course it's inevitable you will make a mistake, but hopefully not one so bad that you should have to start from scratch every time. I've made the mistake, when taking the official exam, of wrongfully drawing a gameboard and wasted time erasing. I should have been more careful in the beginning before writing out the gameboard. This messed up my entire LG section. Don't repeat my mistake if you can avoid it. At least, so was the case for me. Also, I'd advise to not begin forming any 'bad' LG habits (poor notation strategy, inconsistent use of notations etc.) early on in your studies, when possible, because you'll learn what works as you drill/Fool Proof games.

J.Y. erases parts of the diagrams in the video to declutter--- make space on the screen, improve neatness and directness to indicate what he is taking about, or in some cases, he is simply writing things out for the purposes of illustration (how you arrive at some inference), and erases them to show how different inferences link together. Otherwise, if you write out singular inferences and then piece them together, cross out the former. Often, though, he shows different ways that things can be written out, but those consistent mechanics come along with practice. A notable strategy to avoid errors (and erasing) would be to remember to dedicate a brief pause to ensuring the master game board setup and inference chain is as complete as possible and is correct before moving on to the questions.

I wouldn't personally advise anyone to employ an eraser-dependent method. As mentioned, the official exam is also on recycle newspaper like paper, and it makes erasing difficult and sloppy and you may tear your test booklet. Also, you need to spend between 5-8 minutes per game; each game has 5-8 questions. There's not even much time to pick up and put down a large eraser, or have your pencil doing somersaults while the clock's ticking, lol.

Spot on analysis. If you make a mistake like filling in R instead of P in the slot, then, yeah, erasing that is probably fine and the better choice. Talking about erasing whole diagrammed set ups and what not is just a poor habit. Ultimately this is a timed exam, and something I realize although watching the live test takers and myself taking recorded LSAT sections was how much time is wasted when we don't write small and neat. Second, I can't tell you how many times I used an old diagram that wasn't even completed jus to eliminate answer choices.

You basically covered everything I wanted to say here and said it well. If erasing is working for you, I implore you to stop and start just crossing out. Sometimes things can work better but we are afraid to try something new. The habit itself to erase too much is just something you don't want to be instilling. You always want to keep your sub game boards!

Again, just so we are clear, I think it is important to point out again that we are talking about erasing full on diagrams and set ups vs. like a misplaced letter/variable/number/stray line. The latter is perfectly normal, but the former is going to cause you, at the very LEAST, time and bad habits.

Yeah, I'm talking about erasing one or two variables I've placed into my semi-complete game board. Many games ask/require you to temporarily place variables. I'm not sure what kind of erasure you think I'm doing lol. If I mess up an entire game board, obviously I don't erase it. (There's no way that's what you thought I meant.) I'll even cross out a universe or a row on my boards v. erase it if it's no longer useful/a distraction.

With all that said, the ability to know when to erase is definitely a critical skill to have if your goal is perfect LGs. My boards are very small and neat already lol.

I don't honestly remember what I thought up thread, but you seemed to be a big proponent for erasing and I suppose I wrongly surmised you were erasing like whole diagrams. Now I get it, lol.

Alex

@"vanessa fisher" said:
I think there is a difference between erasing whole game boards (which I agree is stupid) and erasing variables in gameboards for new set ups. I just think when you have a ton of sub game boards with a ton of categories, writing them all out for each question takes up a ton of time. Maybe I'm wrong. I'll try both approaches and see.

If it is a simple game or just two sub game boards than I always just write out the board again. When it is a complex game with 4 or 5 boards, I don't see the logic in writing out all game boards for each question. I just erase the variables and enter new ones

You should generally try to write small and neat enough that you can keep all of your boards, always. You will come to find games where the last question is something like "Which one of the following can't go next to Y" - This is where having all your diagrams and board set ups from other questions handy helps. You might be able to answer the question in 5 seconds. At least eliminate 3-4 answers. And this is just one example.

The logic for never EVER erasing or messing with your master game board/ diagram is that under pressure you are prone to make mistakes and may forget what originally went in the places, put them in the wrong order, freeze under pressure. Always keep your master game boards untouched. Rewrite them out short hand. It's not like the real good test takers re-write the entire diagram verbatim and as perfect as the first one. I might just write the variables, do some work in my head, and forget the slots. numberings, all that. That is what you can rely on your master board for that you know is un touched and still accurate.

vanessa fisher

@"Alex Divine"
Fair point. I'll try some with no erasing and compare timing. It may be that the saved time in answering one ore two questions is worth the time spent writing out sub game boards again. Worth a try

Alex

@"vanessa fisher" said:
@"Alex Divine"
Fair point. I'll try some with no erasing and compare timing. It may be that the saved time in answering one ore two questions is worth the time spent writing out sub game boards again. Worth a try

Always worth a try Just practice on a game you've already done so you aren't burning new games using new strategies.