Help me with only when sentence

joycool9567

So I kinda make up my own rules

One rule that worked for me and saves me a lot of the time was

Not .... without/until sentence

Whenever I noticed this type of sentences I automatically remove not and make whatever condition that follows without .... a necessary condition. It conforms to the group 3 and group 4 rule so nothing new.

So sentence like

A is not feasible without or until B

Is always
A -> B

My question is about making a rule about

only A when/if B

I think it is safe to say that I can always translate this sentence into

A only when B

1.I only study when I feel urgent

1. I study only when I feel urgent

These two sentences are exactly same I think.

If a certain verb follows only and then when pops up ( only a when what only would refer to can be none other than whatever condition that follows after when.

Would there be any contradiction or perhaps a counter example?

Thanks

akistotle

Hi @joycool9567

Do you have any examples of "only A when/if B"? Have you ever seen them on actual LSAT questions?

A only when B

1.I only study when I feel urgent

1. I study only when I feel urgent

These two sentences are exactly same I think.

Yes, they are the same.

I had a similar question regarding "only if":
https://7sage.com/discussion/#/discussion/11375/only-if

And this is J.Y.'s answer:
https://7sage.com/discussion/#/discussion/comment/73502

joycool9567

Thank you @akistotle

As a matter of fact yes

From MBT question set 6
Lsat 24 S3 q11

Special kinds of cottom that grow fibers of green or brown have been around since the 1930s but only recently became commercially feasible when a long fibered variety that can be spun by machine was finally bred

I initially made a mistake of translating this sentence into

Machine spun ->> commercially feasible

but the relationship is actually exactly vice versa.

Cuz what it says is that the special cotton could have been commercially feasible only when ... machine spun.. was possible. So long fiber being able to be machine spun was actually the neceasary condition.

The answer choice was also about this relationship

Green and brown cottons that can be spun only by hands are not commercially viable.

Is MBT cuz necessary condition was negated and sufficient was also negated

Sorry i couldnt add any link because im on a phone right now

Thanks for your help:)

akistotle

https://7sage.com/lsat_explanations/lsat-24-section-3-question-11/
I see what you mean. This question is interesting. This is an old PT, so the language is kind of loose.

I don’t know if we can translate “only recently became X when Y was done” into “become X only when Y.”

I don’t think the first sentence tells us there is a conditional relationship between [commercially feasibility] and [long-fibered variety …. was bred]. I think it means that the commercially feasibility was finally achieved because a long-fibered variety that can be spun by machine was bred or something like that....

But I'd like to ask what sages think. Tagging @"Cant Get Right" @"Daniel.Sieradzki" @AllezAllez21 !!

joycool9567

@akistotle
It is a great point. I see why this wouldn't be a conditional statement.

To my understanding, this sentence was either a conditional or causal statement.
It can be paraphrased as you had suggested.

Commercial feasibility was achieved "because of " LFV spun by machine was bred.

In this case, this would be a causal statement.
It was machine spun LFV that "caused" ( or achieved) commercial feasibility because well until machine Spun LFV was developed, these cottons were not commercially viable. So machine Spun LFV was the cause that achieved commercial feasibility.

So,
Cause: Machine spun LFV
Effect: Commercial feasibility

As the causal reasoning in LSAT goes, if there is no effect there must not be effect.
So a hand-spun LFV would not achieve commercial feasibility.

And this might be the right approach. ( No cause No effect)

But again, even if it were causal statement, there is no contradiction in interpreting
only A when B as A only when B . The sentence is saying "the only point of history" when commercial viability of these cottons were achieved is "recent period." Anyway, I see no contradiction in understanding Only A when B as A only when B.

I could think of sentences like this.

I-phone was only recently commercially viable when LTE technology was finally developed.

Whether this is a causal statement or conditional statement, in terms of sentence structure, what only refers to is the recent period "When LTE technology was...."

Maybe it simply doesn't matter lol. Sometimes just get the nuance of the sentence is enough.. Especially for this question, the answer was pretty obvious because other choices were flagrantly unsupported by the stimulus...