Logic Games Troubles

jennybbbbb

I have neglected logic games for a while now thinking I was good to go and focused all my attention on LR (which btw I have seen hardly any improvement)...

Is there any way I can achieve -0 by December test?

Right now I am fool-proofing the CC LG problem sets.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

BinghamtonDave

What are you currently scoring on a fresh section timed?

jennybbbbb

@BinghamtonDave said:
What are you currently scoring on a fresh section timed?

-7/-8 or so.

BinghamtonDave

It is possible that you can score a -0. The exam is...3 weeks out? It is possible but not probable in my estimation. Getting that -8 down to a -5 or -4 is certainly doable, but that last couple of steps to getting a -0 can be a really arduous process to develop in such a short amount of time. A lot goes into a -0 in games: from skipping strategies and then returning, to the rule substitution question(s), to the ability to handle an odd game with confidence. My recommendation: keep plugging away, keep fool proofing, if a -0 is what you really want: register for the February exam.

David

jennybbbbb

@BinghamtonDave said:
It is possible that you can score a -0. The exam is...3 weeks out? It is possible but not probable in my estimation. Getting that -8 down to a -5 or -4 is certainly doable, but that last couple of steps to getting a -0 can be a really arduous process to develop in such a short amount of time. A lot goes into a -0 in games: from skipping strategies and then returning, to the rule substitution question(s), to the ability to handle an odd game with confidence. My recommendation: keep plugging away, keep fool proofing, if a -0 is what you really want: register for the February exam.

David

What do you mean by fool proofing? Like PT 1-35 games? Or just keep doing the LG problem sets in the CC and fool proof those.

Kateryna

It is highly unlikely to get -0 in 3 weeks from -7/-8

BinghamtonDave

I mean fool proof every possible game you can get your hands on after you have done them as part of a timed set. Easy through hard games, apply the fool proof process to every game you can. It has been my experience that if you want to get good a games, you have to have experience with every game you can. The 1-35 set is what people often call "the bundle" this has in my experience functioned as a set to hone my skills on untimed. For me, this set was where I started not knowing how to answer a single question and took 30 minutes to do a single linear game. The 1-35 games are where people learn games in my estimation. The goal from there is to apply that knowledge to timed sets starting with PT 36 and moving forward. This is what worked for me.

jennybbbbb

@BinghamtonDave said:
I mean fool proof every possible game you can get your hands on after you have done them as part of a timed set. Easy through hard games, apply the fool proof process to every game you can. It has been my experience that if you want to get good a games, you have to have experience with every game you can. The 1-35 set is what people often call "the bundle" this has in my experience functioned as a set to hone my skills on untimed. For me, this set was where I started not knowing how to answer a single question and took 30 minutes to do a single linear game. The 1-35 games are where people learn games in my estimation. The goal from there is to apply that knowledge to timed sets starting with PT 36 and moving forward. This is what worked for me.

@Kateryna said:
It is highly unlikely to get -0 in 3 weeks from -7/-8

I haven't gone through the entire bundle but I have fool-proofed most of the problem set games. I would like to get the most out of LG at this point even if that means -3 or -4. After fool-proofing CC, would you guys recommend going straight to the bundle or practice with newer games? I am fairly fast/good at all types of sequencing games and in/out games.

It's just the more difficult games that give me trouble for grouping games etc.

What do you recommend after I fool proof the LG Problem sets? Move on to LG Bundle? Or?

BinghamtonDave

Advice on what specifically to do to reach the goal of -3/-5 by test day is a bit difficult because we are treading a strategic fine line. Ideally, you want both interaction with newer sets but you don't want to burn the newer sets in haste. With that being said, I advise against the following, but will dispense it nonetheless.

If your goal is to maximize your points on LG in a short amount of time, you should consider the following:
-Take timed sets 36-58, save the rest for a possible retake, the newer sets are not drastically different from this range.
-Skip rule substitution questions: these questions should be answered in my estimation when you are already trending close to perfect on the rest of the section. If your goal is to maximize points in a short amount of time: skip these questions, pick a letter and move on.
-Get really good at the "easier" games of the set: your points have to come from somewhere and it makes sense for them to come from the easier games.
-Be comfortable moving around the section by skipping the hard games: check out PT 77 for an example of this, skipping in my estimation is key here.
-Get really good at one or more of the following: in and out, grouping or double layer sequencing. To the extent permitted by the time constraint become an expert in one specific game type. The reason for this is that you might luck out and the hard game of the set might play to your strength. Again, you are leaving a lot to chance here. Once you have picked your specialty, drill every single one of those games from PT 1 through PT 58 individually throughout the day.
-Consider getting a tutor, speak to that person 2-3 times per week for insider strategy and tips.

The above list is not exhaustive and not ideal, but is tailored to maximize points in a short amount of time. Trying this has its drawbacks. One might experience burn out and not retain the ideal amount of information. The key here is to maximize points.

I hope this helps
David

Caleb.rohr.church

@BinghamtonDave said:
Advice on what specifically to do to reach the goal of -3/-5 by test day is a bit difficult because we are treading a strategic fine line. Ideally, you want both interaction with newer sets but you don't want to burn the newer sets in haste. With that being said, I advise against the following, but will dispense it nonetheless.

If your goal is to maximize your points on LG in a short amount of time, you should consider the following:
-Take timed sets 36-58, save the rest for a possible retake, the newer sets are not drastically different from this range.
-Skip rule substitution questions: these questions should be answered in my estimation when you are already trending close to perfect on the rest of the section. If your goal is to maximize points in a short amount of time: skip these questions, pick a letter and move on.
-Get really good at the "easier" games of the set: your points have to come from somewhere and it makes sense for them to come from the easier games.
-Be comfortable moving around the section by skipping the hard games: check out PT 77 for an example of this, skipping in my estimation is key here.
-Get really good at one or more of the following: in and out, grouping or double layer sequencing. To the extent permitted by the time constraint become an expert in one specific game type. The reason for this is that you might luck out and the hard game of the set might play to your strength. Again, you are leaving a lot to chance here. Once you have picked your specialty, drill every single one of those games from PT 1 through PT 58 individually throughout the day.
-Consider getting a tutor, speak to that person 2-3 times per week for insider strategy and tips.

The above list is not exhaustive and not ideal, but is tailored to maximize points in a short amount of time. Trying this has its drawbacks. One might experience burn out and not retain the ideal amount of information. The key here is to maximize points.

I hope this helps
David

David I am the same boat as @jennybbbbb and this is some extremely helpful advice. I am going to go back and fool-proof the easiest games of 1-20. Sub-equivalence questions aren't that hard in my mind after I watched JY's including/excluding videos. I took ptest 77 and naturally skipped game 3 as it is ridiculous and had to watch the explanation after word. Do you think it's worth fool-proofing that game? I have been doing 10-17 LG per day and I think it's really helping. Thanks a lot!

BinghamtonDave

Thank you for your follow up question @"Caleb.rohr.church" PT 77 is in my estimation the paradigmatic example of an LG section where a reliable skipping strategy can really turn a tough section into something more manageable. The games surrounding game 3 in that section are very doable and should harken back to our lessons here on 7Sage. Ideally, we want to be so good at the straight forward familiar games that we have reliably banked those points and use whatever left over time we have to focus on game three. Doing so, we are in damage control here: actively preventing a hard section from becoming a nightmare section. Take note here that because the goal is to maximize points, not only are we skipping the game at first, but when we return to the game we are skipping questions to maximize points.

Now, when it comes to the utility of fool-proofing game 3 of that section, yes I would do that. I would fool proof that game with PT 34 game 2. It appears to me that PT 34 game 2 is the historical precursor to PT 77 Game 3. The general operation we have been asked to do is similar in my understanding: we are taking pieces off a board like a sports draft.

In addition to that, I was originally planning on taking this September or December's exam, but my mother fell terminally ill and I had to take my foot off the gas of full time prep. What I was gearing up to do for LG for those exams was specific focus on the following:

-circle games: put a day of circle games into your fool proofing rotation. Have a system to attack them systematically: see if you are comfortable setting them up with a linear game board. Know the verbiage of the games by memory, for instance, "clockwise" means "to the right of" on a linear game board.
-Double layer sequencing games: do every double layer sequencing game in LSAT history 20 times each: Get PT 55 Game 4 down to 9 minutes with confidence.
-Sequencing games with conditional rules: these are underrated games as far as difficulty goes, master them with confidence.

These are just a few thing I will begin working on full time again come December.

I hope these tips help
David